View Poll Results: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

Voters
17. You may not vote on this poll
  • The poor should be banned from voting

    13 76.47%
  • The richest 10% should be banned from voting

    2 11.76%
  • The top 1% should be banned from voting

    1 5.88%
  • Only the middle class should be allowed to vote

    1 5.88%
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Thread: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

  1. #321
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    maybe tax decisions should be based on the vote of those affected.
    Ok then the rich cant vote on anything they have a vested interest in which is EVERYTHING else ...im cool with that...but you wont like it much

  2. #322
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    maybe tax decisions should be based on the vote of those affected.
    Apparently, the question is too difficult, or the answer is too inconvenient.

    How does this work when these decisions are made by elected representatives, and not by direct votes on the issues?

    But, hey, thanks for playing. Our hostess will give you a lovely parting gift as you exit the building.

  3. #323
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    How does this work when these decisions are made by elected representatives, and not by direct votes on the issues?
    I don't know about Turtle, but I've been treating this whole discussion as direct votes, not elected representatives. A vote on a particular issue ought to be made up of those who will directly fund and be affected by said issue. The idea that a group of people can vote to have someone else pay for something that directly benefits them seems absurd.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #324
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    I'm sorry that you can't seem to follow along.
    I'm sorry that you're projecting.

    Your claim is that limiting voting rights to property owners would keep lower income people from voting. I disagreed by making the point that plenty of lower income people own property- including myself.
    My argument does not rest on the premise that many lower income people don't own property. My argument rests only on the premise that higher income people are more likely to own property than lower income people. That premise is a fact and so my argument still stands.

    I haven't "abandoned" anything. I was merely trying to clarify the hypothetical. Also, I never said owning property is the only legitimate way of having a stake in the country. Some people focus short term and other don't. That was point point.
    But if you don't think owning property is the only legitimate way of having a stake in the country, then why do you consider it a valid means of determining voting rights. If there are ways other than property ownership to have a stake in the country, then wouldn't people who use those ways instead of property ownership also lose their right to vote?

  5. #325
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't know about Turtle, but I've been treating this whole discussion as direct votes, not elected representatives. A vote on a particular issue ought to be made up of those who will directly fund and be affected by said issue. The idea that a group of people can vote to have someone else pay for something that directly benefits them seems absurd.
    concur totally

    dems want a society where the majority are beholden on dem politicians to give the majority the wealth of the minority



  6. #326
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    dems want a society where the majority are beholden on dem politicians to give the majority the wealth of the minority
    no, try again. but this time use the rational part of your brain.

  7. #327
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I'm sorry that you're projecting.
    Not at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    My argument does not rest on the premise that many lower income people don't own property. My argument rests only on the premise that higher income people are more likely to own property than lower income people. That premise is a fact and so my argument still stands.
    No kidding. Of course more rich people own property. But there are less rich people. Most property owners are middle class.


    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    But if you don't think owning property is the only legitimate way of having a stake in the country, then why do you consider it a valid means of determining voting rights. If there are ways other than property ownership to have a stake in the country, then wouldn't people who use those ways instead of property ownership also lose their right to vote?
    Owning property is the natural end result of long term investment and planning. Instead of focusing on one aspect, trying thinking about what it takes to get there. A stable job, focus on long term goals such as financial solvency, and for us lower income people, being thrifty. I sure hate canning beans and making my own laundry detergent but if it helps pay the mortgage-

    Even with lower income, people can still be property owners in a relatively short time. One doesn't even need credit. There's owner financing. I don't understand why people find the idea of having standards for those who vote. It shouldn't have anything to do with gender or race for sure, but people should at least have a modicum of intelligence and foresight.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  8. #328
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't know about Turtle, but I've been treating this whole discussion as direct votes, not elected representatives. A vote on a particular issue ought to be made up of those who will directly fund and be affected by said issue. The idea that a group of people can vote to have someone else pay for something that directly benefits them seems absurd.
    We don't get direct votes on the vast majority of these issues*, so the presumption reduces the point or concept to a mere talking point, which is nothing less than clouding the discussion. It's kind of like saying, "In our fantasy world, where this doesn't really exist, it should be done this way.". Seriously, what does that add to the discussion?

    Can we apply it to the real world? How does this work when these decisions are made by elected representatives, and not by direct votes on the issues?

    *- Barring some issues on ballot initiatives, but those only happen in some states and never at the federal level.


    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    concur totally
    Of course you do. It's your saving grace.

  9. #329
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    no, try again. but this time use the rational part of your brain.
    I think I am more than handling you without shifting out of first gear. Its probably why I am defending those of us who pay too much taxes and you are one of those who demand the successful pay more



  10. #330
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    Re: Should the Poor not be allowed to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I'm talking about people who make NOTHING per year because they don't work AT ALL. They get handed a check by the state month after month because they're too damn stupid or lazy to go get a job and earn their own way.
    So the majority of the older voters that vote your way anyways are the ones that you don't want voting? I don't really know what you are getting at.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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