View Poll Results: Are You Voting November 8th?

Voters
24. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I vote in every election.

    15 62.50%
  • No, I never vote.

    1 4.17%
  • No, I don't vote unless I have a candidate I'm supporting.

    4 16.67%
  • No, I can't vote.

    4 16.67%
  • Undecided.

    0 0%
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Thread: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

  1. #31
    Sage

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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Public employees are in a non competitive market, aka a monopoly.
    If public employees decide to strike, can the public not pay taxes until they return to work?

    Also, unionized public employees get double representation towards the state/local government.
    They get to vote and lobby government through their labor union.
    They get more representation than the non public employee, aka the average voter.

    It subverts the democratic process.

    It's completely unethical and for a long time, even labor union leaders agreed that it was wrong.
    A monopoly!?!?!?!? I was a public employee teacher for 33 years. We had no monopoly. There were Catholic schools, military schools, Lutheran schools, charter schools, home schooling.... there was no monopoly.

    So now the right wing has come up with a way to deprive union members who are public employees of their rights of citizenship via representation? Amazing.

    How does what you describe subvert the democratic process? You state it but offer no proof of it. What part of the democratic process has been 'subverted' .... whatever that may mean?
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  2. #32
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A monopoly!?!?!?!? I was a public employee teacher for 33 years. We had no monopoly. There were Catholic schools, military schools, Lutheran schools, charter schools, home schooling.... there was no monopoly.

    So now the right wing has come up with a way to deprive union members who are public employees of their rights of citizenship via representation? Amazing.

    How does what you describe subvert the democratic process? You state it but offer no proof of it. What part of the democratic process has been 'subverted' .... whatever that may mean?
    Can the public not pay taxes, if public employees go on strike?
    The public is captive to the taxes levied on them, whether or not the services are rendered.

    Public agrees to one level of taxation, public employees demand a raise, that would require a tax increase.

    This isn't right and left, this is right and wrong.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Can the public not pay taxes, if public employees go on strike?
    The public is captive to the taxes levied on them, whether or not the services are rendered.

    Public agrees to one level of taxation, public employees demand a raise, that would require a tax increase.

    This isn't right and left, this is right and wrong.
    Why did you reprint my response and then say things that have nothing to do with what I wrote that refuted your post?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #34
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Public employees are in a non competitive market, aka a monopoly.
    If public employees decide to strike, can the public not pay taxes until they return to work?

    Also, unionized public employees get double representation towards the state/local government.
    They get to vote and lobby government through their labor union.
    They get more representation than the non public employee, aka the average voter.

    It subverts the democratic process.

    It's completely unethical and for a long time, even labor union leaders agreed that it was wrong.
    issue 2/senate bill 5 is an attack on unions as a whole, continuing what appears to be the republican strategy of weakening organized labor(weakening their democratic opponents) and seen by many as being the first step in trying to turn ohio into a 'right to work' or, imo, a 'right to work for less money, benefits, and health and safety protections....senate bill 5 seeks to limit what govenment unions can collective bargain for, and by instituting new rules on what can be bargained for...Senate Bill 5, page 230, 4117.08 C: “nothing … impairs the right and responsibility of each public employer to......5)make any and all reasonable rules and regulations....as written, if the union wanted to collectively bargain against something, all the other side of the table would have to say is that what is being bargained against is 'reasonable', and that the union can't collective bargain on it...the bill accomplishes giving the public employer the power to determine what can be bargained for/against by its elimation of binding arbitration.

    by eliminating binding arbitration, you effectively kill collective bargaining. disputes would be handled by the employer's 'legislative body'...heads the employer wins, tails the union loses. this is why the firefighters, police, and nurses are having such a fit, because this eliminates being able to bargain staffing levels. all the employer has to say is that the levels they want are 'reasonable' and can't be bargained on. there are no checks and balances in this bill.

  5. #35
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why did you reprint my response and then say things that have nothing to do with what I wrote that refuted your post?
    You didn't bother to answer the pertinent question I asked in my post.

    Can taxpayers not pay taxes, when public employees go on strike?
    We already know the answer to this.

    It's unethical, it may not fit your agenda, but the truth stands.
    This isn't the same thing as private sector unions, which lobby to garner a more fair portion of the profit generated by a business.
    Government isn't in the business of turning a profit, they get their funds from user fees and primarily taxes.

    FDR was astute enough to realize this, maybe you should come around too.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #36
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    issue 2/senate bill 5 is an attack on unions as a whole, continuing what appears to be the republican strategy of weakening organized labor(weakening their democratic opponents) and seen by many as being the first step in trying to turn ohio into a 'right to work' or, imo, a 'right to work for less money, benefits, and health and safety protections....senate bill 5 seeks to limit what govenment unions can collective bargain for, and by instituting new rules on what can be bargained for...Senate Bill 5, page 230, 4117.08 C: “nothing … impairs the right and responsibility of each public employer to......5)make any and all reasonable rules and regulations....as written, if the union wanted to collectively bargain against something, all the other side of the table would have to say is that what is being bargained against is 'reasonable', and that the union can't collective bargain on it...the bill accomplishes giving the public employer the power to determine what can be bargained for/against by its elimation of binding arbitration.

    by eliminating binding arbitration, you effectively kill collective bargaining. disputes would be handled by the employer's 'legislative body'...heads the employer wins, tails the union loses. this is why the firefighters, police, and nurses are having such a fit, because this eliminates being able to bargain staffing levels. all the employer has to say is that the levels they want are 'reasonable' and can't be bargained on. there are no checks and balances in this bill.
    The checks and balances are in the legislature, that are elected by "the people" and you're wanting to subvert that through the arbitration process.
    It's wrong, "the people" elect individuals to represent their wishes in government, "the people" do not elect union representatives to change the rules in law.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #37
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The checks and balances are in the legislature, that are elected by "the people" and you're wanting to subvert that through the arbitration process.
    It's wrong, "the people" elect individuals to represent their wishes in government, "the people" do not elect union representatives to change the rules in law.
    no, it is not wrong. binding arbitration to settle disputes is well respected. the republicans in office now are not 'representing' my 'wishes' by trying to ram this turd of a bill down our throats.

  8. #38
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A monopoly!?!?!?!? I was a public employee teacher for 33 years. We had no monopoly. There were Catholic schools, military schools, Lutheran schools, charter schools, home schooling.... there was no monopoly.
    Of course, any parent who chooses to send their children to any of those alternatives is still compelled to pay for the public schools that they are not using in addition to the tuition that they pay on top of that to the schools that they are using.

    I don't know that “monopoly” is entirely the right word to describe the situation, but clearly there is something wrong with a consumer being compelled to pay for goods or services from one provider, even if that consumer doesn't avail himself of that provider, choosing instead to buy from a different provider.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    no, it is not wrong. binding arbitration to settle disputes is well respected. the republicans in office now are not 'representing' my 'wishes' by trying to ram this turd of a bill down our throats.
    You don't seem to understand this.
    I'm totally not caring who is ramming what down your throat.
    If it were, socialists, democrats, anarchists, space aliens, nazi's, etc, I'd still be in favor.

    Public employees are tasked with providing essential services to the public.
    If they decide to strike, the welfare of the public is at stake and it essentially holds the public "hostage" to their demands.
    It's wrong, completely and entirely unethical.

    There is no getting around this.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #40
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    Re: Are You Voting Next Tuesday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Of course, any parent who chooses to send their children to any of those alternatives is still compelled to pay for the public schools that they are not using in addition to the tuition that they pay on top of that to the schools that they are using.

    I don't know that “monopoly” is entirely the right word to describe the situation, but clearly there is something wrong with a consumer being compelled to pay for goods or services from one provider, even if that consumer doesn't avail himself of that provider, choosing instead to buy from a different provider.
    He's cherry picking.
    I wonder what police and fire services provider I can choose, if the public guys decide to strike.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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