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Worst Presidents

Worst American President(s)

  • Obama

    Votes: 10 28.6%

  • The presidents who let 500,000 Americans die needless in the Civil War

    Votes: 8 22.9%

  • Hoover, who turned a recession into the Great Depression

    Votes: 17 48.6%
  • Total voters
    35
CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, you cannot base an 19th Century decision on 21st Century morals. Complete non-sequitur. And Hitler was certainly an extremist based on morals of the time.

Again, you are basing your decision on 21st Century morals... in assessing someone from the 19th century.
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Why can't I base an 19th Century decision on 21st Century morals? I am no moral relativist, I believe in the same values whereever I am, and whatever time it is. Deal with it, because I did the ranking.

Jackson was for a smaller government and prized individual liberty over most other things. That sounds like a libertarian to me. And regardless of what Adams did... Jackson paid off the entire US debt.
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Jackson believed government was an entity for rich people, and he believed banks were crushing the common man. It wasn't liberalism he was fighting for. He was more a populist common-man fighter. The spending in the US went from 1.85 of GDP till 2.7% of GDP when he left office, so he was no liberterian.

That is one school of thought. Others would state that the crisis was CAUSED by the Bank of US itself (fraud and corruption), problems with Mexican silver, and state government deficit spending... having nothing to do with Jackson.
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Please explain


No, Van Buren CREATED it. Jackson borrowed it and took it national.
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Jackson took it national, so he is to blame.
 
is there a great american president(s) thread?
 
Muhammed said:
Are you not aware that Carter wrote well over a dozen books to capitalize on his fame?
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I am sure he made money for that. However, I would not place that in the same category as sitting on boards of directors making fat fees for going to a few meetings each year or delivering a six figure speech to some fat cats.

from Turtle

there are a bunch of 1980 olympians who cannot wait to piss on Carter's grave
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One of the very few things we agree on is a condemnation of Carter for the 80 Olympic fiasco. It was disgraceful in many ways. However, that was part of his failed presidency. His conduct post presidency has been noble and admirable.
 
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The poll is obviously tainted by partisan bias. Any poll that does not include GWSoupForBrains, the initiator of the Great GWSoupForBrains Depression, grand liar on a world scale, master torturer on a world scale, warmonger on a world scale, as a candidate for worst president ever has absolutely zero credibility. End of story.
 
obvious Child said:
It's really quite sad. I basically made the poll as stark of a choice as possible.

A president who essentially destroyed the economy of the US causing the worst economic disaster the US had ever encountered, the Presidents who are essentially responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Americans or Obama.

You are not rational if you pick Obama.
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The poll did not allow for rational choice to begin with. In your attempt to be stark you were also too vague, and more than a little duplicitous.. Initially I had absolutely no idea what you meant by "Presidents who are essentially responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Americans", so I didn't vote at all. I just participated in the conversation.

Once you clarified what that meant later, I still didn't feel inclined to vote. The choices allowed weren't sufficient.
 
Worst President by far is George W Bush, followed by Ronald Reagan then Herbert Hoover.
 
I don't mind people blaming Hoover for turning a recession into a depression, but the problem is they always ignorantly claim that the problem with Hoover is he didn't intervene enough, or as some dolts like to portray, that he didn't do anything at all, which is absurd.
 
Wilson is the worst president, followed closely by FDR.
 
ARealConservative said:
I don't mind people blaming Hoover for turning a recession into a depression, but the problem is they always ignorantly claim that the problem with Hoover is he didn't intervene enough, or as some dolts like to portray, that he didn't do anything at all, which is absurd.
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Much of what he did do was near the end of his term, and by that time public opinion was so entrenched against him that he had no chance of winning re-election regardless who his opponent was.
 
radcen said:
Much of what he did do was near the end of his term, and by that time public opinion was so entrenched against him that he had no chance of winning re-election regardless who his opponent was.
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Nobody was going to be able to fix the mess, because it was caused by the Fed implementing a contractionary monetary policy.

Hoover (and FDR to a greater extent) prolonged and worsened the calamity caused by the central bank.
 
ARealConservative said:
I don't mind people blaming Hoover for turning a recession into a depression, but the problem is they always ignorantly claim that the problem with Hoover is he didn't intervene enough, or as some dolts like to portray, that he didn't do anything at all, which is absurd.
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Well, it's actually not quite either. Hoover made the wrong intervention choices. Raising taxes, starting dirty wars and cutting spending were all examples of the wrong intervention choices.
 
radcen said:
The poll did not allow for rational choice to begin with. In your attempt to be stark you were also too vague, and more than a little duplicitous.. Initially I had absolutely no idea what you meant by "Presidents who are essentially responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Americans", so I didn't vote at all. I just participated in the conversation.

Once you clarified what that meant later, I still didn't feel inclined to vote. The choices allowed weren't sufficient.
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Well, I did say in the Civil War. That should be pretty clear which Presidents.

As for the hacks who say Dubya is the worst, last time I checked, Dubya didn't get 500,000 Americans killed.
 
obvious Child said:
Well, it's actually not quite either. Hoover made the wrong intervention choices. Raising taxes, starting dirty wars and cutting spending were all examples of the wrong intervention choices.
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where was spending cut after the market collapse?
 
obvious Child said:
Well, I did say in the Civil War. That should be pretty clear which Presidents.

As for the hacks who say Dubya is the worst, last time I checked, Dubya didn't get 500,000 Americans killed.
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He only killed 4500 Americans, not counting his execution record from Texas. OTOH, he is responsible for the deaths of perhaps 500,000 Iraqis. I would expect the true figures on that to come out after the first of the year. Then there is the aftereffect of the cost of the Iraq misadventure known as the GWSnotForBrains Great Depression that is ongoing.
 
DaveFagan said:
He only killed 4500 Americans, not counting his execution record from Texas. OTOH, he is responsible for the deaths of perhaps 500,000 Iraqis. I would expect the true figures on that to come out after the first of the year. Then there is the aftereffect of the cost of the Iraq misadventure known as the GWSnotForBrains Great Depression that is ongoing.
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congress authorized the war. the democrats had a majority in the senate. your blame game is childish and incorrect.
 
ARealConservative said:
congress authorized the war. the democrats had a majority in the senate. your blame game is childish and incorrect.
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IMO, all blame games at that level are childish and incorrect *cough* political *cough*.

There's no way that one person could be solely responsible for all that gets blamed on them.

On the other hand, I sometimes think of POTUS as the "supreme blame target" political office...I mean...even if the POTUS had no knowledge of X problem, he/she SHOULD have known, therefor it's their fault...


Meh.
 
ARealConservative said:
where was spending cut after the market collapse?
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As I recall, Hoover cut the following budget after the crash by 63 million. Not a whole lot per se, but couple that with raising taxes and dirty trade wars (which he went on record saying was bad but still signed that awful Republican bill anyways) moved together to make a recession into something far worse.
 
obvious Child said:
As I recall, Hoover cut the following budget after the crash by 63 million. Not a whole lot per se, but couple that with raising taxes and dirty trade wars (which he went on record saying was bad but still signed that awful Republican bill anyways) moved together to make a recession into something far worse.
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congressional records I see shows spending went up every year he was in office.
 
ARealConservative said:
congressional records I see shows spending went up every year he was in office.
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You are right, spending went up drastically under Hoover. In fact spending remained stable under FDR before the war.

Still textbooks pretends like FDR was the big spender, while Hoover was doing nothing.

usgs_line.php
 
ARealConservative said:
congress authorized the war. the democrats had a majority in the senate. your blame game is childish and incorrect.
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I think it's pretty fair to say that without GWB's direct influence, there would not have been a focus on Iraq, and probably no military conflict would have occurred. The same most certainly cannot be said about Afghanistan. That one's on all of us. Although I'm pretty sure, at the time, most Americans didn't want any kind of occupation. We just wanted a simple plan like "go in, kill the guys who were responsible for the WTC, and leave."

But either way, there was no outcry from this country to attack Iraq until Bush started telling us there was.
 
I know he isn't up there, but, I'd give my vote to Ulysses S. Grant. With the rampant corruption, being unable to say no to his military "allies," and the "Black Friday" economic crisis, he sits on top of my list.
 
Paschendale said:
I think it's pretty fair to say that without GWB's direct influence, there would not have been a focus on Iraq, and probably no military conflict would have occurred. The same most certainly cannot be said about Afghanistan. That one's on all of us. Although I'm pretty sure, at the time, most Americans didn't want any kind of occupation. We just wanted a simple plan like "go in, kill the guys who were responsible for the WTC, and leave."

But either way, there was no outcry from this country to attack Iraq until Bush started telling us there was.
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bs. the war drum against Iraq was beating for Bush 1, Clinton, and Bush 2.
 
ARealConservative said:
bs. the war drum against Iraq was beating for Bush 1, Clinton, and Bush 2.
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Why are you so insistent on trying to re-write history. I thought all Repubs were proud of GWSoupForBrains for generating so much business for the big Military contractors. All the big businesses got a bigger piece of the pie with lots of contracts. I mean bubba, it jus' bidness, don't you think? Remember 9/11 and then Bush and Cheney saying "9/11 and Saddam" repeatedly for the consumption by the massaged by the Media messengers. WMD and Saddam. OBL and Saddam. This history ain't gonna change.
 
These Choices are so Bad, one wonders if this is a trick poll or a political statement.
In no way are the choices adequate in number or accurate in the mere 3 named. (Not even an 'Other'/explain choice.)
Far better was the discussion/choices already had http://www.debatepolitics.com/history/70681-worst-presidents-all-time.html

Opting for an Obama choice 2 years/9 months into his Presidency!
And because of the Chicken Feed spending of Obamacare. O-care 1 trillion of FUNDED Liability over 10 years.

Bush spent 1 Trillion on his two wars alone, UNFUNDED, Left the country in just short of a Hoover depression. Short because OF the Fed in good part, and Mitigated since BY the Fed.
You blame Hoover for cutting the deficit but Obama for Not decreasing spending.. the opposite.
Obamacare will minimally save Tens of Thousands if not more by covering Tens of Millions more people; the Unfunded Bush Trillion/two wars Killed 5000+.

Medicare 'Part D' ALONE (Prescription drugs) passed by Bush&co, and Already a Bigger UNFUNDED Liabilty than Social Security, Much less Obamacare. (!)
See OP video/discussion here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/economics/110574-kyle-bass-confessions-dangerous-mind.html
"Obamacare is just a Bad Day in Medicare"

How you didn't included presidents responsible to Social Security and Medicare instead of picking on Obama is astonishingly poor Math.
(or, ie, not Include LBJ's 'Great Society spending AND Vietnam deaths.. nor Nixon)
How you cannot Include 8 years of 'W', instead of 2yrs-9mos months of Obama who inherited this ongoing Monster-recession/mitigated-depression, also staggering.
Again so bad, (altho it will attract other hacks) it feels like a trick poll from an [otherwise] smart guy like OC.
 
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Paschendale said:
You left out Wilson, the man who literally sold the United States to private bankers. The legal codification of wealth disparity that we are still suffering under today, that informed Reaganomics, trickle down theories, the absurd idea that the wealthy actually deserve what they have... that all comes from Wilson and his allowing turning over ownership of all the wealth in the country to a few private interests. Did you know that all money is actually borrowed from them? That's why it says Federal Reserve Note. Did you also know that 25% of all payments from the national debt go right into their pockets. That's right, of the nearly 15 trillion that the country owes, 3.75 trillion of that is destined to go right into the pockets of these legally anonymous owners of the Federal Reserve. And it's not like they gave us anything for this. All of the money we have is a debt to them. It's loaned out, with interest.

And all of this is because of Woodrow Wilson. Also, he manipulated his country into a war it had no business taking part in. I'm sure a lot of conservatives hate him for signing the federal income tax into law. Plus he was a racist, in a time when racism was starting to lose its hold on the country, and enlightened, educated people were getting over some of the old prejudices. Plessy vs Ferguson, while allowing the "separate but equal" doctrine (which is, of course, not equal at all), still recognized that it was wrong to subject members of different races to unequal standards like education. A black school had to be just as good as a white school. Why do I mention this? It was because Plessy v Ferguson was resolved in 1896, and Woodrow Wilson was elected president in 1913. In 17 years, he ought to get with the program. Instead he wanted to keep the separate part, but drop the equal.

I don't mean to suggest that everything Woodrow Wilson did was bad. He supported some important anti-trust legislation and signed women's suffrage into law. He did some good. But the bad things he did are so unforgivable that they still are killing innocent children today, in order to line the pockets of fatcats so fatcat, they must no longer be human.

Because of Woodrow Wilson, none of us own any of our possessions. We had to purchase them on credit, even if we bought it with cash, for even cash is just credit from the federal reserve. Because of Woodrow Wilson, we are slaves. Debt Slaves. We own nothing, and have no buying power. With every action we take, with every dime spend we tangle their web even tighter.

I've ranted and gotten a bit doomsayer here, but the important information is simple.
1. Federal reserve bad. It's owned by and operated by a few private owners, whose identities are kept completely secret.
2. Federal reserve big. All money it gives to use is actually an agreement to pay that money back, with interest.
3. Federal reserve smart. All the money we have to pay back the reserve is done with either (slave) labor, or the very same money that we borrowed from them and cannot pay the debt on.

All very complex, and I am not sober enough to explain in real detail.

Suffice to say. Woodrow Wilson was a bad guy. And I am about to pass out.
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Don't forget the increased interventionism in Latin America, starting the precedent of banning certain drugs, and the Treaty of Versailles where he sacrificed a great deal of things that would have facilitated greater international peace for a toothless League of Nations. I find it funny, that no matter what one's political ideology is, Wilson has probably done something to greatly piss them off, and he is still one of our most popular Presidents.
 
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