View Poll Results: Should stopping and frisking be illegal?

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  • NO

    9 33.33%
  • YES

    17 62.96%
  • I DON'T KNOW

    1 3.70%
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Thread: Stop and Frisk practices

  1. #41
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    He'll need to swear to and describe exactly what it is about my behavior that makes him believe there's drugs in my house.
    Don't be so sure about that, a lot of people were cleared of bogus charges to find their property sold off before the court proceedings were over with.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #42
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The official line is that these checkpoints are voluntary. Just try telling the officer that, or making a u-turn to avoid the checkpoint, that and see how it works out for ya.
    I disagree that anyone claims that submitting to checkpoints is voluntary. The actual rationale is that you've given your implied consent. You're confusing two separate things.

  3. #43
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I disagree that anyone claims that submitting to checkpoints is voluntary. The actual rationale is that you've given your implied consent. You're confusing two separate things.
    The whole point is that the implied consent legal argument is a bogus way to get around due process laws.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #44
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Don't be so sure about that, a lot of people were cleared of bogus charges to find their property sold off before the court proceedings were over with.
    LOL, ok well, I can see we're heading down the "all police are lying thugs" road. I'm not condoning police abuses, but neither do I assume that's all police ever do.

  5. #45
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The whole point is that the implied consent legal argument is a bogus way to get around due process laws.
    Actually, implied consent is part of due process laws.

  6. #46
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    With more than half the NYPD being black, and latinos and black being the majority frisked, I'd say the ACLU is going to have a helluva time trying to figure out whom to blame.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #47
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I disagree that anyone claims that submitting to checkpoints is voluntary. The actual rationale is that you've given your implied consent. You're confusing two separate things.
    No, the official line from (some) police departments is that checkpoints are voluntary. Yeah, about as voluntary as the income tax.
    Last edited by radcen; 10-24-11 at 09:53 PM.

  8. #48
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I see. So no arrest or search should ever occur without a warrant?
    If something is in progress and in plain view of the officer then a warrant isn't necessary. I think there are some instances where a warrant is a hinderance to stopping a crime in progress but the burden of proof is heavily against law enforcement that want to make a warrantless arrest, they had better prove that the actions taken were of the utmost urgency to stop a clear and present threat to the general populace such as intercepting communications about a terrorist attack, an assassination/hit plot, or other nefarious activities. In contrast, an officer stopping someone without probable cause just to try and "find something", "anything" is not justifiable by any stretch of the imagination.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #49
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    LOL, ok well, I can see we're heading down the "all police are lying thugs" road. I'm not condoning police abuses, but neither do I assume that's all police ever do.
    No, my argument isn't at all aimed at the character of police, I would wager that most are fine upstanding servants. Even though some due process abuses come out of good intentions I feel it necessary to say that good intentions(getting drugs, drunks, uninsured off the streets) is simply insufficient to warrant gross abuses of due process, it's very important that we fight for the rights we have left to have any prayer of restoring the lost ones.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #50
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    Re: Stop and Frisk practices

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Actually, implied consent is part of due process laws.
    Not really, it's a selective legal definition of consent based upon subjective interpretations of a defendants actions. For instance the drivers license argument, I did consent to the breathalyzer rule by signing the contract, I did not consent to being stopped at a checkpoint for no damn reason at 11p.m. when I am trying to get home from work or even a coffee chat with a friend.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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