View Poll Results: Is there a solution for everyone?

Voters
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  • yes

    3 16.67%
  • no

    6 33.33%
  • everyone has to win some and lose some

    5 27.78%
  • political merry-go-round will never end, its to be expected in a democratic society

    2 11.11%
  • we should marginalize those who disagree with us

    0 0%
  • kill those who disagree with us

    1 5.56%
  • other

    1 5.56%
  • rootabega

    2 11.11%
  • u r dumb mega

    2 11.11%
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Thread: Is there a solution for everyone?

  1. #1
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    Is there a solution for everyone?

    Ok, here is how I see politics.

    Everyone wants the problems they perceive in the world to be fixed in a way that they would like. Very generic statement there, but its important to understand.

    Because, everyone has their own view on what should or should not be done society wise, combined with sheer population numbers. Meaning this, x% of the country is conservative, x% is liberal, x% is moderate, etc. Sheer population forces of the citizenry, whether one agrees with them or not, are still going to be a force to get things done their way. In the end, this means, even if one is staunchly conservative/liberal and whether or not they feel they are correct in their solutions, population numbers are still going to weigh in, meaning that even if you think something is the right thing to do, you will continue to win and lose various political battles.

    So, in the end, because various groups disagree, I think we should be getting creative and looking for solutions that suit everyone or at least the groups that are large enough to matter in any practical sense. (since this is not about truth, but about the sheer number of voices in our society)

    My question, is this possible?

  2. #2
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Ok, here is how I see politics.

    Everyone wants the problems they perceive in the world to be fixed in a way that they would like. Very generic statement there, but its important to understand.

    Because, everyone has their own view on what should or should not be done society wise, combined with sheer population numbers. Meaning this, x% of the country is conservative, x% is liberal, x% is moderate, etc. Sheer population forces of the citizenry, whether one agrees with them or not, are still going to be a force to get things done their way. In the end, this means, even if one is staunchly conservative/liberal and whether or not they feel they are correct in their solutions, population numbers are still going to weigh in, meaning that even if you think something is the right thing to do, you will continue to win and lose various political battles.

    So, in the end, because various groups disagree, I think we should be getting creative and looking for solutions that suit everyone or at least the groups that are large enough to matter in any practical sense. (since this is not about truth, but about the sheer number of voices in our society)

    My question, is this possible?
    Sure, but only if (1) you create a culture that values political cooperation (which can take generations, the fewer the more active the effort is) or (2) somehow force people who continue to dissent to go along with it. It highly unlikely at this point that people will be convinced by any amount of evidence or reason that partisan politics are destroying our country's socio-economic structure and that everyone has a republican duty to be centrist.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-24-11 at 05:07 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Sure, but only if (1) you create a culture that values political cooperation (which can take generations, the fewer the more active the effort is) or (2) somehow force people who continue to dissent to go along with it. It highly unlikely at this point that people will be convinced by any amount of evidence or reason that partisan politics are destroying our country's socio-economic structure and that everyone has a republican duty to be centrist.
    That sums up my thoughts about it very well. I would only add that we are more unlikely to be able to reach the centrist positions (in Congress) with the current requirement for a super majority to pass any major legislation.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #4
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Ok, here is how I see politics.

    Everyone wants the problems they perceive in the world to be fixed in a way that they would like. Very generic statement there, but its important to understand.

    Because, everyone has their own view on what should or should not be done society wise, combined with sheer population numbers. Meaning this, x% of the country is conservative, x% is liberal, x% is moderate, etc. Sheer population forces of the citizenry, whether one agrees with them or not, are still going to be a force to get things done their way. In the end, this means, even if one is staunchly conservative/liberal and whether or not they feel they are correct in their solutions, population numbers are still going to weigh in, meaning that even if you think something is the right thing to do, you will continue to win and lose various political battles.

    So, in the end, because various groups disagree, I think we should be getting creative and looking for solutions that suit everyone or at least the groups that are large enough to matter in any practical sense. (since this is not about truth, but about the sheer number of voices in our society)

    My question, is this possible?
    You're going to piss of a lot of minority groups by doing this.
    For me, I'm not really interested in stomping on the voices of minorities.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're going to piss of a lot of minority groups by doing this.
    For me, I'm not really interested in stomping on the voices of minorities.
    I see it as opposing paradigms between live people seeking creature comforts and security, both long term and short term, versus Corporations seeking profit. Those are the major paradigms, but there are probably a thousand minor ones.

  6. #6
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    I'd say it is feasible but unlikely. We'd have to get over our hyperpartisanship on both sides and actually have to strive to work together to better America.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Ok, here is how I see politics.

    Everyone wants the problems they perceive in the world to be fixed in a way that they would like. Very generic statement there, but its important to understand.

    Because, everyone has their own view on what should or should not be done society wise, combined with sheer population numbers. Meaning this, x% of the country is conservative, x% is liberal, x% is moderate, etc. Sheer population forces of the citizenry, whether one agrees with them or not, are still going to be a force to get things done their way. In the end, this means, even if one is staunchly conservative/liberal and whether or not they feel they are correct in their solutions, population numbers are still going to weigh in, meaning that even if you think something is the right thing to do, you will continue to win and lose various political battles.

    So, in the end, because various groups disagree, I think we should be getting creative and looking for solutions that suit everyone or at least the groups that are large enough to matter in any practical sense. (since this is not about truth, but about the sheer number of voices in our society)

    My question, is this possible?
    I think a lot of this happens already... but in kind of a haphazard fashion. This or that side has more control, passes certain bills... the pendulum swings and the other side has control and passes legislation... if it's not too far from the middle, compromises have to be made, "riders" get attached... almost no bill ever gets passed in an ideologically pure form.

    With a few exceptions now and then, the ship mostly steers to the middle of the river, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

    I gather that you're talking about doing it more consciously and deliberately, however.

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  8. #8
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Ok, here is how I see politics.

    Everyone wants the problems they perceive in the world to be fixed in a way that they would like. Very generic statement there, but its important to understand.

    Because, everyone has their own view on what should or should not be done society wise, combined with sheer population numbers. Meaning this, x% of the country is conservative, x% is liberal, x% is moderate, etc. Sheer population forces of the citizenry, whether one agrees with them or not, are still going to be a force to get things done their way. In the end, this means, even if one is staunchly conservative/liberal and whether or not they feel they are correct in their solutions, population numbers are still going to weigh in, meaning that even if you think something is the right thing to do, you will continue to win and lose various political battles.

    So, in the end, because various groups disagree, I think we should be getting creative and looking for solutions that suit everyone or at least the groups that are large enough to matter in any practical sense. (since this is not about truth, but about the sheer number of voices in our society)

    My question, is this possible?
    You'll never reach a solution for a given problem that pleases everyone.

    One of the problems is that people try anyway.

    Thus, we get bills with “pork”.
    -------------------
    I’d much rather something like this:
    1. Politician makes proposal.
    2. Political body politician is a member of votes on proposal.
    3. If accepted, pass to other body (using Congress as example here, this would be from Senate to House, or opposite).
    4. If rejected, either cease efforts in that direction or rewrite and re-propose.

    Additional limits:

    Only the politician who proposes bill may make changes, and none of the changes may address anything other than the central aspect of the bill. Further, none of the changes may specifically address an area of the country as separate from another (replace country with state or local area as needed).

    -------------------
    Now, obviously, this is just a half-formed idea at the moment.

    But I dislike the way most if not all things are handled in the current system, in all areas.

    Far too many openings for corruption, stupidity, etc.

    Said dislike prompted this thought(s).

    Meh.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #9
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    So, in the end, because various groups disagree, I think we should be getting creative and looking for solutions that suit everyone or at least the groups that are large enough to matter in any practical sense. (since this is not about truth, but about the sheer number of voices in our society)

    My question, is this possible?
    no. simply put, there are too many mutually contradicting assumptions, and not enough Venn Diagram overlap to produce the kinds of solutions you are talking about. And even if there were, the partisan incentives of our leadership would lead them to attack such solutions, once proposed, and a large number who would otherwise be fine with said solution will follow them.

    See: cutting the wealthy out of the entitlements. which by all rights should be about as bipartisan as you get.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no. simply put, there are too many mutually contradicting assumptions, and not enough Venn Diagram overlap to produce the kinds of solutions you are talking about. And even if there were, the partisan incentives of our leadership would lead them to attack such solutions, once proposed, and a large number who would otherwise be fine with said solution will follow them.

    See: cutting the wealthy out of the entitlements. which by all rights should be about as bipartisan as you get.
    The problem with that is it assumes every problem solved at once with one action, which is not the case. Every area has different sets of overlaps, different areas where compromise is possible. Not compromising does not serve our country, and compromises are possible.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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