View Poll Results: Is there a solution for everyone?

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes

    3 16.67%
  • no

    6 33.33%
  • everyone has to win some and lose some

    5 27.78%
  • political merry-go-round will never end, its to be expected in a democratic society

    2 11.11%
  • we should marginalize those who disagree with us

    0 0%
  • kill those who disagree with us

    1 5.56%
  • other

    1 5.56%
  • rootabega

    2 11.11%
  • u r dumb mega

    2 11.11%
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Thread: Is there a solution for everyone?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?




  2. #12
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're going to piss of a lot of minority groups by doing this.
    For me, I'm not really interested in stomping on the voices of minorities.
    Neither am I, but that is how things work right now. A lot of minority groups get representation by latching onto a major party or they are like libertarians.

  3. #13
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    (since this is not about truth, but about the sheer number of voices in our society)
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonxe View Post
    I see you didn't read my original post carefully.

  4. #14
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    sorry, I was to distracted by your epic sig.



  5. #15
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem with that is it assumes every problem solved at once with one action, which is not the case. Every area has different sets of overlaps, different areas where compromise is possible. Not compromising does not serve our country, and compromises are possible.
    Apparently not.

    .

  6. #16
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem with that is it assumes every problem solved at once with one action, which is not the case. Every area has different sets of overlaps, different areas where compromise is possible. Not compromising does not serve our country, and compromises are possible.
    it doesn't assume that at all - what I am pointing out instead is that people's mutually exclusive assumptions about human nature and interaction will lead us into mutually exclusive conclusions. compromises are not always possible, especially when questions are more binary in nature.

    so, for example, as an adherent of The Great Faith of Rum-ism, my god tells me to convert the whole world, and kill those who disagree. you, are not a Rumist, and have no intention of becoming one. Me saying you will, you saying you will not; outside of you saying "okay, kill me", there's not alot of room for compromise there.

    Or, consider the question of abortion - and what a fun topic that is. One side is dedicated wholeheartedly to the notion that women should not have their bodies and reproduction controlled by others, and one side is dedicated wholeheartedly to the notion that children should not be killed when they become inconvenient. Now, both sides accuse the other of opposing their motive, but in reality both sides are opposed to the notion of government control of our personal medical decisions (think of the overlap between opponents of abortion and opponents of the health insurance mandate), and both sides are generally opposed to the notion of killing children when they become inconvenient. The question at the heart of the matter is non-compromisable, because it is binary. Is the life being extinguished a human child, or not? It is or it isn't - your identity can't be "somewhat of a human child" or "a human child on even numbered days, but not on odd numbered days." And so Abortion remains a heated, non-long-term compromisable debate; because the assumptions are mutually exclusive.

    Sometimes compromise is possible - but only really when the assumptions are not mutually exclusive, but rather exist on a scale. So, for example, we agree that the state has a role to play in ensuring that all children are educated, but differ on how to go about providing it - we can find compromise within that spectrum. But increasingly our political process has come to offer us two mutually contradicting worldviews about how we should and do interact with each other. This election is going to be a real "ideology" election in a sense that we haven't had in a while, I think. Not since Reagan, really.

  7. #17
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're going to piss of a lot of minority groups by doing this.
    For me, I'm not really interested in stomping on the voices of minorities.
    How? Are their views more valuable than mine or others?

    What he's talking about is compromise - you can't have everything you want but you can at least decide what's most important and devise a plan that tries to find a middle ground.

    Unfortunate thing is that many people don't want compromise - they want *their way* or *no way*
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  8. #18
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonxe View Post
    Haha



    (don't know why - that made me think of it)
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 10-25-11 at 11:29 AM.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
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    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  9. #19
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I think that many people oppose compromise because the two parties have become so diametrically opposed in their core goals that to compromise would be the same as letting the other side win.

    That, and some people believe so strongly in X position that to compromise it would be to compromise their very nature. Or something like that.

    For myself, I tend to have very few hard positions – but gun rights is one. In my ideal world, the fewest gun laws possible is ideal.

    None would be best, but that is, I think, impossible. Humans being humans.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #20
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    Re: Is there a solution for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Ok, here is how I see politics.

    Everyone wants the problems they perceive in the world to be fixed in a way that they would like. Very generic statement there, but its important to understand.
    ........

    So, in the end, because various groups disagree, I think we should be getting creative and looking for solutions that suit everyone or at least the groups that are large enough to matter in any practical sense. (since this is not about truth, but about the sheer number of voices in our society)

    My question, is this possible?
    Politics for most part is based on beliefs rather than problem solving with the tools available. In design engineering, not politics, you would think that itís all problem solving but itís not. Many engineers come to believe that certain solutions work and others donít. These beliefs are generally based on having a solution work or not work in the past, then believing it will work or not work in the future regardless of some things changing. If people canít do it in an engineering environment very well, how are they going to do problem solving in politics?

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