View Poll Results: Are you in the 1% or 99%

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  • 1%

    9 17.31%
  • 99%

    43 82.69%
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Thread: The 99 % or 1%?

  1. #151
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    I'm part of the 53%.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  2. #152
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I feel they are about something else. They are not really that against corporatism. They are people who are mad, because the rich are getting richer while they are not. I realize that a lot of the income inequality that US have experienced the last 30 years, have been unavoidable. At least with traditional politics. Going after the rich won't make them richer, but I don't think the protestors realize this.



    US were not number 1 in the 1990s. Countries like Brunei, and Luxembourg was in front of the US, but also Switzerland. In fact US is ahead of Switzerland right now and US has certainly performed better than Europe. GDP: GDP per capita, PPP, current international dollars

    The median wage you say is too low, do not include a lot of factors. Median income is 44K. Employers pay a 7% payroll tax, 47K. Benefits, 74K Earnings and Benefits - Firms Providing Benefits - Workers, Retirement, Industry, Private, Characteristics, and Average - StateUniversity

    Now, we are up to 74K, if we add all remaining factors such as capital gains taxes, business taxes, property taxes, regulations it should be approximately 90K. The remainder is profit.

    Why hasn't the wages increased much? Because benefits and hidden taxes has increased.

    Income taxes has dropped dramatically the last 30 years, income inequality has increased, the number of people working has dropped, but revenue hasn't. Wierd. That is because they are getting their income from hidden taxes. Increased benefits has also had a dampening effect on median wages. The reason I find this movement scary is because I know that wages in the US are going to go down soon. People are complaining about wages not going up fast enough, what will they say when their wages go down. This is another reason, I don't support hidden taxes, and benefits, because it makes it diffiucult to see a correlation between GDP per capita growth and income.




    That is incorrect. GDP per capita has increased by 160% since 1960. Your median income figure is probably correct, but average income with capital gains has only gone up by 65%. The reason neither of them has gone up more, is because benefits, regulation and hidden taxes has increased substantially the last 50 years.

    Fact is, US had a GDP increase of 4.9% the last 10 years. With so many factors dragging direct income down, I'm suprised it didn't drop more. People always expect more and more, but fact is. We are producing less and less. The only thing that are not turning these numbers negative are technological growth. I think the biggest problem in the western world is too high expectations combined with lack of knowledge.

    http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/wp-co...ncome-saez.jpg
    USA, Canada, Western Europe, Asia: 14 Nations Gross Domestic Product (GDP PPP) Per Capita from 1960


    Those numbers are definitly incorrect. As you can see here

    Attachment 67117072

    You are really somewhat part of the problem. You like so many Americans have been given false information about what is happening to the American economy. I think the biggest failure is education. Students should learn about this in the school, and be given proper unbiased information. Most people would accept all your figures, because they have no clue about the real numbers.



    Now that your basis is debunked, then we can see what Wall Street protest is really about. Wall Street protests are about the misguided idea that Americans could have substantially higher living standards, and they think the 1% rich people are preventing them from having a much higher living standards.

    What I want is to get people to understand that their wages can not get substantially higher and income inequality can't become like Scandinavia. In fact American living standards are one of the highest in the world. Enjoy it while you can, because it probably won't last.
    Do you see what that son-of-a-bitch Bill Clinton did?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #153
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    and to blame a crisis more than three decades in the making on someone who has held office for less than a tenth of that time would not be intellectually honest.
    on the contrary, had we responded normally to this recession, we would currently be doing much better. Had the U.S. economy recovered from the current recession the way it bounced back from the other 10 recessions since World War II, our per-capita gross domestic product (GDP) would be $3,553 higher than it is today, and 11.9 million more Americans would be employed. Furthermore, had we responded the way we did in the early 1980's, annual per-capita income would be $4,154 higher than before the recession (that's an extra $16,600 for a family of four), and some 15.7 million more Americans would have jobs. That's enough jobs to employ 100% of the 13.5 million Americans currently classified as unemployed. In addition, we would have provided jobs for 30% of both the 2.4 million discouraged or marginally attached workers and the 4.8 million who have totally dropped out of the work force since January 2008.




    but, but, but, surely this is different, and there was never any possibility of us seeing a normal recovery?

    nope.

    Private-sector job creation initially recovered from the recession at a normal rate, leading to predictions last year of a “Recovery Summer.” Within two months of the passage of Obamacare, however the job market stopped improving. This suggests that businesses are not exaggerating when they tell pollsters that the new health care law is holding back hiring...

  4. #154
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Maybe not all the 1% ... yet the clearly you have not spent time around the uber rich or followed how they have manipulated markets, depleted natural resources and view you with total disregard.


    The uber-rich have so much wealth that they believe can insulate themselves from any collapse above everyone else, with their gated and moated communities, multi million $ multiple homes in multiple climates, access to water, security, private jets and general insensitivity to the price of anything and hence insensitivity to the value of everything.

    While I do not demonize the entire 1% there is a very real and manipulative segment that welcomes the shrinking middle class and they gain off of each crisis and feel insulated from the shrinking natural and financial resources.

    The Road to Plutocracy ...

    Money and politics: The road to plutocracy | The Economist
    very few of the top one percent (starts at about 375K a year) are able to do the nefarious stuff that seems to have your shorts in a wad. you seem upset that some people can ward off economic collapse. and the people who are really insensitive to say the value of taxation are those who don't pay for what they get. The rich not only pay for what they get, they pay for what you and many others get-lots of government services that the recipients don't pay anywhere near full value for



  5. #155
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ...The rich not only pay for what they get, they pay for what you and many others get-lots of government services that the recipients don't pay anywhere near full value for
    what govt. services are you accusing him of receiving?

  6. #156
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I feel they are about something else. They are not really that against corporatism. They are people who are mad, because the rich are getting richer while they are not. I realize that a lot of the income inequality that US have experienced the last 30 years, have been unavoidable. At least with traditional politics. Going after the rich won't make them richer, but I don't think the protestors realize this.



    US were not number 1 in the 1990s. Countries like Brunei, and Luxembourg was in front of the US, but also Switzerland. In fact US is ahead of Switzerland right now and US has certainly performed better than Europe. GDP: GDP per capita, PPP, current international dollars

    The median wage you say is too low, do not include a lot of factors. Median income is 44K. Employers pay a 7% payroll tax, 47K. Benefits, 74K Earnings and Benefits - Firms Providing Benefits - Workers, Retirement, Industry, Private, Characteristics, and Average - StateUniversity

    Now, we are up to 74K, if we add all remaining factors such as capital gains taxes, business taxes, property taxes, regulations it should be approximately 90K. The remainder is profit.

    Why hasn't the wages increased much? Because benefits and hidden taxes has increased.

    Income taxes has dropped dramatically the last 30 years, income inequality has increased, the number of people working has dropped, but revenue hasn't. Wierd. That is because they are getting their income from hidden taxes. Increased benefits has also had a dampening effect on median wages. The reason I find this movement scary is because I know that wages in the US are going to go down soon. People are complaining about wages not going up fast enough, what will they say when their wages go down. This is another reason, I don't support hidden taxes, and benefits, because it makes it diffiucult to see a correlation between GDP per capita growth and income.




    That is incorrect. GDP per capita has increased by 160% since 1960. Your median income figure is probably correct, but average income with capital gains has only gone up by 65%. The reason neither of them has gone up more, is because benefits, regulation and hidden taxes has increased substantially the last 50 years.

    Fact is, US had a GDP increase of 4.9% the last 10 years. With so many factors dragging direct income down, I'm suprised it didn't drop more. People always expect more and more, but fact is. We are producing less and less. The only thing that are not turning these numbers negative are technological growth. I think the biggest problem in the western world is too high expectations combined with lack of knowledge.

    http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/wp-co...ncome-saez.jpg
    USA, Canada, Western Europe, Asia: 14 Nations Gross Domestic Product (GDP PPP) Per Capita from 1960


    Those numbers are definitly incorrect. As you can see here

    Attachment 67117072

    You are really somewhat part of the problem. You like so many Americans have been given false information about what is happening to the American economy. I think the biggest failure is education. Students should learn about this in the school, and be given proper unbiased information. Most people would accept all your figures, because they have no clue about the real numbers.



    Now that your basis is debunked, then we can see what Wall Street protest is really about. Wall Street protests are about the misguided idea that Americans could have substantially higher living standards, and they think the 1% rich people are preventing them from having a much higher living standards.

    What I want is to get people to understand that their wages can not get substantially higher and income inequality can't become like Scandinavia. In fact American living standards are one of the highest in the world. Enjoy it while you can, because it probably won't last.
    Interesting to note that your inequality chart does indeed show a 400% increase for the top 1% but doesn't include the bottom 90% at all.

    Its the lower four quintiles that are stagnant or falling.

    I don't think anyone has claimed that there isn't an overseer class that is also benefitting.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  7. #157
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    I'm definitely in the 99% of toiling mousewheel running economic plebians living on the money dribblings the top 1% prints for me. I dont even touch money that often my bank is on the internet and I dont use cash... which in itself is probably an argument to the illusory nature of wealth. And the economy is mostly in services. How do you put a price on a service? Oh boy you passed me a lox bagel and the bagel shop today you really earned your $10 bucks for the hour, thanks I could've grabbed it myself. As if that isnt a form of welfare. BURN THIS ****ER TO THE GROOOOOUUUND!

  8. #158
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    I'm still waiting to find out what the "1%" has that they took away from me.

    Got a script for that?
    Actually, that IS one.

    See, your question is based on an intentionally flawed premise. It assumes those in the lower quintiles HAD something that the upper quintile TOOK. That's not technically what happens. What happens is more and more of what is produced every year never even leaves the ownership/management classes hands in the first place.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  9. #159
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Actually, that IS one.

    See, your question is based on an intentionally flawed premise. It assumes those in the lower quintiles HAD something that the upper quintile TOOK. That's not technically what happens. What happens is more and more of what is produced every year never even leaves the ownership/management classes hands in the first place.
    so what is your solution



  10. #160
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    Re: The 99 % or 1%?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so what is your solution
    Can I have all your money?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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