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Thread: Thought regarding a tax system

  1. #1
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    Thought regarding a tax system

    Okay, crazy thought in my head regarding a tax system.

    Liberals generally like a progressive tax that has the higher incomes paying a significantly higher amount and that is light on the poorer ones.

    Conservatives generally are wanting to have everyone have some skin in the game and avoid situations where only one bracket is getting played with due to mob rule.

    So what if we did this. We set 6 brackets and they are unmovable. Bracket 1 is our baseline bracket with each other bracket being X times higher than the baseline bracket. That number (X) can not be changed, and individual brackets can not be changed. The only way to change the tax is to affect the baseline bracket. It would look like this

    1) $0 - $24k . . . . . . . 1 (baseline)
    2) $24k - $72k . . . . . . Baseline * 2
    3) $72k - $144k . . . . . Baseline * 4
    4) $144k - $240k . . . . Baseline * 6
    5) $240k - $360k . . . . Baseline * 8
    6) $360k + . . . . . . . . Baseline * 10

    The only deduction would be from Chlidren. Your baseline is reduced by 6% per child (may of 4 children), with that 6% going down by 1 for each bracket you're in. So Bracket 1 would get the full 6% per, bracket 3 would be getting 4%, and bracket 6 would be 1% per.

    From there, politicians can still argue over taxes but only in regards to changing the baseline. If you want the upper bracket to pay 70% you can, however the poor will be paying 7% and middle class will be paying between 14% and 28%. Want to make the upper income brackets pay under 30%? Then the poor is going to be paying less than 3% taxes and the highest middle class tax would be under 12%.

    This would eliminate the ability for politicians to play to any particular base, pitting them against the other. Whether that be convincing everyone to go after the "rich" or doing a "pay off" to the wealthy by lowering their taxes. It would interject a bit of stability into our tax rate system as well and make it slightly less of a constant politicla issue. It'd also simplify the tax code immensely.

    You could set Capital Gains at say Baseline * 5 and leave it at that, taking Capital Gains also off the table as a political tool. Ditto for setting something like the Corporate Tax (Base * 5 as well)?

    So, what would your thoughts of this generalized tax scheme be? Like it? Dislike? Like the theory but not the numbers? Also, what would you push for the starting baseline to be?

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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    Why a deduction for children? You have kids based, in part, on whether you can afford them or not.

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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Okay, crazy thought in my head regarding a tax system.

    Liberals generally like a progressive tax that has the higher incomes paying a significantly higher amount and that is light on the poorer ones.

    Conservatives generally are wanting to have everyone have some skin in the game and avoid situations where only one bracket is getting played with due to mob rule.

    So what if we did this. We set 6 brackets and they are unmovable. Bracket 1 is our baseline bracket with each other bracket being X times higher than the baseline bracket. That number (X) can not be changed, and individual brackets can not be changed. The only way to change the tax is to affect the baseline bracket. It would look like this

    1) $0 - $24k . . . . . . . 1 (baseline)
    2) $24k - $72k . . . . . . Baseline * 2
    3) $72k - $144k . . . . . Baseline * 4
    4) $144k - $240k . . . . Baseline * 6
    5) $240k - $360k . . . . Baseline * 8
    6) $360k + . . . . . . . . Baseline * 10

    The only deduction would be from Chlidren. Your baseline is reduced by 6% per child (may of 4 children), with that 6% going down by 1 for each bracket you're in. So Bracket 1 would get the full 6% per, bracket 3 would be getting 4%, and bracket 6 would be 1% per.

    From there, politicians can still argue over taxes but only in regards to changing the baseline. If you want the upper bracket to pay 70% you can, however the poor will be paying 7% and middle class will be paying between 14% and 28%. Want to make the upper income brackets pay under 30%? Then the poor is going to be paying less than 3% taxes and the highest middle class tax would be under 12%.

    This would eliminate the ability for politicians to play to any particular base, pitting them against the other. Whether that be convincing everyone to go after the "rich" or doing a "pay off" to the wealthy by lowering their taxes. It would interject a bit of stability into our tax rate system as well and make it slightly less of a constant politicla issue. It'd also simplify the tax code immensely.

    You could set Capital Gains at say Baseline * 5 and leave it at that, taking Capital Gains also off the table as a political tool. Ditto for setting something like the Corporate Tax (Base * 5 as well)?

    So, what would your thoughts of this generalized tax scheme be? Like it? Dislike? Like the theory but not the numbers? Also, what would you push for the starting baseline to be?
    this could be workable, but would it be the same as we have now, say, if you made 75k, you would be taxed at baseline * 2 for 72k, and baseline * 4 for the additional 3k? otherwise, there actually would be a huge disincentive to jump into the next bracket and would not seem to be fair at all.

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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    I refuse to like this until it has a pie chart.

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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    How is this proposal much different in concept than the current tax table?


    2011
    Married Filing Jointly Married Filing Separately Single Head of Household
    Marginal Tax Brackets Marginal Tax Brackets Marginal Tax Brackets Marginal Tax Brackets
    Tax Rate Over But Not Over Tax Rate Over But Not Over Tax Rate Over But Not Over Tax Rate Over But Not Over
    10.0% $0 $17,000 10.0% $0 $8,500 10.0% $0 $8,500 10.0% $0 $12,150
    15.0% $17,000 $69,000 15.0% $8,500 $34,500 15.0% $8,500 $34,500 15.0% $12,150 $46,250
    25.0% $69,000 $139,350 25.0% $34,500 $69,675 25.0% $34,500 $83,600 25.0% $46,250 $119,400
    28.0% $139,350 $212,300 28.0% $69,675 $106,150 28.0% $83,600 $174,400 28.0% $119,400 $193,350
    33.0% $212,300 $379,150 33.0% $106,150 $189,575 33.0% $174,400 $379,150 33.0% $193,350 $379,150
    35.0% $379,150 - 35.0% $189,575 - 35.0% $379,150 - 35.0% $379,150 -
    Note: Last law to change rates was the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003.


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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    I'm all for simplifying the tax code, however I don't deny that sometimes its better to complicate it for whatever reasons, whether its to encourage growth in certain industrial sectors, or land areas, or to encourage more participation in high education by giving schools tax break, etc. I guess we could wipe it all clean and rebuild it from this system, but God almighty what a task heck even if we all agreed what to do simply drawing up the law would take years alone.

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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Okay, crazy thought in my head regarding a tax system.

    Liberals generally like a progressive tax that has the higher incomes paying a significantly higher amount and that is light on the poorer ones.

    Conservatives generally are wanting to have everyone have some skin in the game and avoid situations where only one bracket is getting played with due to mob rule.

    So what if we did this. We set 6 brackets and they are unmovable. Bracket 1 is our baseline bracket with each other bracket being X times higher than the baseline bracket. That number (X) can not be changed, and individual brackets can not be changed. The only way to change the tax is to affect the baseline bracket. It would look like this

    1) $0 - $24k . . . . . . . 1 (baseline)
    2) $24k - $72k . . . . . . Baseline * 2
    3) $72k - $144k . . . . . Baseline * 4
    4) $144k - $240k . . . . Baseline * 6
    5) $240k - $360k . . . . Baseline * 8
    6) $360k + . . . . . . . . Baseline * 10

    The only deduction would be from Chlidren. Your baseline is reduced by 6% per child (may of 4 children), with that 6% going down by 1 for each bracket you're in. So Bracket 1 would get the full 6% per, bracket 3 would be getting 4%, and bracket 6 would be 1% per.

    From there, politicians can still argue over taxes but only in regards to changing the baseline. If you want the upper bracket to pay 70% you can, however the poor will be paying 7% and middle class will be paying between 14% and 28%. Want to make the upper income brackets pay under 30%? Then the poor is going to be paying less than 3% taxes and the highest middle class tax would be under 12%.

    This would eliminate the ability for politicians to play to any particular base, pitting them against the other. Whether that be convincing everyone to go after the "rich" or doing a "pay off" to the wealthy by lowering their taxes. It would interject a bit of stability into our tax rate system as well and make it slightly less of a constant politicla issue. It'd also simplify the tax code immensely.

    You could set Capital Gains at say Baseline * 5 and leave it at that, taking Capital Gains also off the table as a political tool. Ditto for setting something like the Corporate Tax (Base * 5 as well)?

    So, what would your thoughts of this generalized tax scheme be? Like it? Dislike? Like the theory but not the numbers? Also, what would you push for the starting baseline to be?
    Dislike.

    20-25% consumption on everything anyone buys, paid at the point-of-sale. No exceptions, write-offs, or other taxes at all.

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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    This is to be a tax rate on what kind of income. I retired at 55. I netted more money per year for 5 years after retirement. For example, I sold a house for about 500k that I bought 20 years earlier for 100k. Is that income? When was it made? Are there any deductions? I bought another house for 300k before I sold that one, so does that allow me to say I still have 300k invested in a house? What other deductions do I get? I inherited commercial property, that is not income, but what the tax rate on that? I sold it for more that the appraisal at inheritance; is that income? Do I get deductions on that income for the money and hours of work to sell it? Some people I worked for got differed income (You know how that works Iím sure.), so how does you proposal establish a tax rate for that?

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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So, what would your thoughts of this generalized tax scheme be? Like it? Dislike? Like the theory but not the numbers? Also, what would you push for the starting baseline to be?
    Generally I tend to support a simpler, progressive tax structure. However, I would not give any tax deductions for kids.
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    Re: Thought regarding a tax system

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Dislike.

    20-25% consumption on everything anyone buys, paid at the point-of-sale. No exceptions, write-offs, or other taxes at all.
    I need new roofing on one of my homes. If I get a small time roofer, my neighbor is one, to buy the materials does he pay the tax on that? If he does my roof with those materials, who sells them to me? Do I pay the tax again with tax on tax? How much could he charge me? A big discount below his purchase price would be nice. Would it be better for me to buy the materials and pay the tax just once? If I buy the roofing materials in Mexico (I have a PU and a trailer that carries over a ton.) how much tax do I pay? Is this tax just for the final consumer? If I buy a car and claim Iím a part time taxi service how much tax do I pay?

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