View Poll Results: what do you consider "middle class"?

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    3 6.82%
  • 25k - 75k

    5 11.36%
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    14 31.82%
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    8 18.18%
  • 50k - 125k

    14 31.82%
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Thread: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

  1. #61
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Just to point out this.
    Incomes are earned per person, households change.

    CARPE DIEM: Income PER EARNER Has Actually Risen For All Groups, And Rose Fastest For The Lowest Quintile
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #62
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Really.
    So forms of untaxed compensation like company paid medical insurance, company paid 401k contributions, government transfers of money to individuals, don't count as income?

    STATS:
    "Another 2.6 million people slipped into poverty in the United States last year, the Census Bureau reported Tuesday, and the number of Americans living below the official poverty line, 46.2 million people, was the highest number in the 52 years the bureau has been publishing figures on it.

    And in new signs of distress among the middle class, median household incomes fell last year to levels last seen in 1996.

    Economists pointed to a telling statistic: It was the first time since the Great Depression that median household income, adjusted for inflation, had not risen over such a long period, said Lawrence Katz, an economics professor at Harvard.

    “This is truly a lost decade,” Mr. Katz said. “We think of America as a place where every generation is doing better, but we’re looking at a period when the median family is in worse shape than it was in the late 1990s.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/us...pagewanted=all
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #63
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Another 2.6 million people slipped into poverty in the United States last year, the Census Bureau reported Tuesday, and the number of Americans living below the official poverty line, 46.2 million people, was the highest number in the 52 years the bureau has been publishing figures on it.

    And in new signs of distress among the middle class, median household incomes fell last year to levels last seen in 1996.

    Economists pointed to a telling statistic: It was the first time since the Great Depression that median household income, adjusted for inflation, had not risen over such a long period, said Lawrence Katz, an economics professor at Harvard.

    “This is truly a lost decade,” Mr. Katz said. “We think of America as a place where every generation is doing better, but we’re looking at a period when the median family is in worse shape than it was in the late 1990s.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/us...pagewanted=all
    Using the flawed census bureau data.
    That gives an incomplete analysis of actual total income.

    But yes, people tend to make less during times of economic recession and jobs tend to lag in a recovery.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #64
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Using the flawed census bureau data.
    That gives an incomplete analysis of actual total income.

    But yes, people tend to make less during times of economic recession and jobs tend to lag in a recovery.
    The wealth disparity numbers were high in 2007, preceding the Great Recession, just as the wealth disparity was high preceding the Great Depression. You are trying to place the cart before the horse.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #65
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The wealth disparity numbers were high in 2007, preceding the Great Recession, just as the wealth disparity was high preceding the Great Depression. You are trying to place the cart before the horse.
    Those numbers were largely bullcrap.

    Terence Corcoran: The U.S. income ‘divergence’ myth | FP Comment | Financial Post
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  6. #66
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Your source is largely biased bullcrap:

    "Black established the (National) Post to provide a voice for Canadian conservatives and to combat what he and many Canadian conservatives considered to be a liberal bias in Canadian newspapers."

    "Since Izzy Asper's acquisition of the National Post, the paper has become a strong voice in support of the state of Israel and its government."

    "Politically, the Post has retained a conservative editorial stance under the Aspers' ownership, but has become markedly less strident"

    "On May 19, 2006, the newspaper ran two pieces alleging that the Iranian parliament had passed a law requiring religious minorities to wear special identifying badges. One piece was a front page news item titled "IRAN EYES BADGES FOR JEWS" accompanied by a 1935 picture of two Jews bearing Nazi-ordered yellow badges. Later on the same day, experts began coming forward to deny the accuracy of the Post story. The story proved to be false, but not before it had been picked up by a variety of other news media and generated comment from world leaders."

    "Since 1998, the Canadian Islamic Congress has been actively monitoring media coverage for anti-Muslim or anti-Islam sentiment and has issued reports highlighting its findings. It has opposed the use of phrases such as "Islamic guerrillas," "Islamic insurgency" and "Muslim militants" saying that terms like "militant" or "terrorist" should be used without a religious association "since no religion teaches or endorses terrorism, militancy or extremism."[14] The Congress has singled out the National Post, saying the paper "consistently is No. 1" as an anti-Islam media outlet"

    National Post - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Tell, you what, just have your conservative candidates tell the middle class that the pain they are feeling is not real, that compared to many third world countries, they would be considered rich, yeah, that's the ticket. Make your case!
    Last edited by Catawba; 10-13-11 at 08:24 PM.
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  7. #67
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Your source is largely biased bullcrap:

    "Black established the (National) Post to provide a voice for Canadian conservatives and to combat what he and many Canadian conservatives considered to be a liberal bias in Canadian newspapers."

    "Since Izzy Asper's acquisition of the National Post, the paper has become a strong voice in support of the state of Israel and its government."

    "Politically, the Post has retained a conservative editorial stance under the Aspers' ownership, but has become markedly less strident"

    "On May 19, 2006, the newspaper ran two pieces alleging that the Iranian parliament had passed a law requiring religious minorities to wear special identifying badges. One piece was a front page news item titled "IRAN EYES BADGES FOR JEWS" accompanied by a 1935 picture of two Jews bearing Nazi-ordered yellow badges. Later on the same day, experts began coming forward to deny the accuracy of the Post story. The story proved to be false, but not before it had been picked up by a variety of other news media and generated comment from world leaders."

    "Since 1998, the Canadian Islamic Congress has been actively monitoring media coverage for anti-Muslim or anti-Islam sentiment and has issued reports highlighting its findings. It has opposed the use of phrases such as "Islamic guerrillas," "Islamic insurgency" and "Muslim militants" saying that terms like "militant" or "terrorist" should be used without a religious association "since no religion teaches or endorses terrorism, militancy or extremism."[14] The Congress has singled out the National Post, saying the paper "consistently is No. 1" as an anti-Islam media outlet"

    National Post - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Alright, you still aren't refuting the data.
    So we'll try another source.

    http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/10/...en-told-b.html
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 10-13-11 at 08:29 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #68
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Alright, you still aren't refuting the data.
    Your data was already refuted by Lawrence Katz, economics professor at Harvard. (See above)


    A libertarian economist???

    "A conservative vote for Sen. McCain is a wasted vote. It is wasted because even if he is elected, he does not stand for conservative values and will not promote conservative values. Government will grow, spending will rise, and liberty will diminish.

    But it looks increasingly likely that he won’t be elected, and no one will care about his vote totals if he loses. In contrast, a vote for Bob Barr and the Libertarian Party will be noticed and will have a lasting, positive impact. A vote for Bob Barr and the Libertarian Party will be a vote for liberty and for America’s future."

    CARPE DIEM: Libertarian Candidate Bob Barr Makes His Case

    Where do you find these people?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #69
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    assume average cost of living.
    Helluva choice, from $125K right to $500K. Knowing you, probably on purpose.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #70
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    Re: what do YOU consider "middle class"?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    for me, there is. if you assume an average COL, say midwest, i believe between 50 - 125k is middle class. why? 50 - 125 allows for the purchase of a home, a decent car (s), and the ability to feed your family well. it's irrelevant if you've put yourself in deep debt, your income should cover all the necessities plus maybe a vacation.
    It is definitely not irrelevant. Debt is the single most reliable destroyer of individual wealth and vacuum of income. Fully half of Americans say they couldn't scrape up $2,000 in cash in 30 days. I could write you a check today for five times that. Give me 36 hours and I could write you a check for twenty times that (without touching retirement or the kids education) with a few extra thousand left over, just in case. All of it on a "lower" income while raising a family - because I live debt free, and we save.
    Last edited by cpwill; 10-13-11 at 10:47 PM.

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