What is the best term to describe a person who unlawfully enters the US?

Cephus said:

I never claimed anything of the sort. What I said is still factually true. The pedestal of the Statue of Liberty is not U.S. immigration law. Deal with reality.

Click to expand...

And I never claimed 'The New Colossus' was part of US immigration law. But it is good to see you aknowledge that the American dream has no basis in reality.

paris said:

And I never claimed 'The New Colossus' was part of US immigration law. But it is good to see you aknowledge that the American dream has no basis in reality.

Click to expand...

The American Dream has as much basis in reality as our immigration laws.

The New Colossus
Emma Lazarus, 1883

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Simply awesome. Noble. Wonderful.

Nowhere does it say "sneak by customs", "duplicate your former society within ours instead of integrating yourself into our culture", "maintain your former allegiances and send our money abroad".

I have no issue with "immigration". I completely and totally respect the idea that someone ventures out on their own to pursue a better life.

I also completely and totally respect and participate in charitable giving. But, if a man gives his family's home and all of their assets away, his family freezes to death, and the folks who received the donation tear down the house, use it for firewood, and move on - what was accomplished?

The F word (plural)

OscarB63 said:

best answer yet.

Click to expand...

I hope people know I was joking.

paris said:

Hmm... Mexican?

Click to expand...

Except some of them...aren't.

Bardo said:

Undocumented or unauthorized immigrant is the most finely articulated answer.

Click to expand...

Oh Lord, politically correct...oh...I see socialist. That would explain it. Since you believe in socialism, how about sending me a hundred bucks. I need some new loafers.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Click to expand...

I didn't read anything to the effect of, "Give me your criminals who don't respect our laws." Someone who illegally sneaks into the country is, by definition, a criminal. I want to emphasize that immigration can be a good thing. Part of what makes the country great is that someone can come here and build a better life for himself. If someone is persecuted or poor in some other country and wants to come to the USA and respect our laws, work hard, and create a life, that's great. I'm all for that. What I'm not for is people violating the law. Someone who illegally sneaks in, violates our laws and our sovereignty with their very first act here. Those people I don't want. They can stay out. The ones I want are those who apply to come legally and once here obey all our laws, learn our language and way of life. I want people who want to be American. I don't want anyone who doesn't care about the country, disrespects our laws, and only wants to get what they can get from it. People like that can stay out.

If our process of legal immigration is too bureaucratic and difficult, then those laws should be revised. Revise the laws and let good people come here legally. Anyone who wants to come here to smuggle drugs, to be in gangs, to commit crimes is someone who has no right to come here. Anyone who illegally slips in is someone who also doesn't respect our laws and therefore has no right to be here.

Respect our laws or stay out.

The Mark said:

What?

Why the hell would "illegal immigrant" mean the "very person" was illegal? The use of the term immigrant in that phrase means that it's an illegal immigrant, as opposed to a legal one. Denoting the general illegality of their immigration into the country.

I suppose Illegal Alien might be better, because it gives the impression that they aren't here to stay, as opposed to the "Illegal Immigrant" term.

But the "Illegal" part most definitely denotes their action, not the person itself...wtf?

Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that. Why specifically does illegal immigration earn the people the label "illegal"? No other criminals get this? Something doesn't add up here.

The Mark said:

Actually, I think that I might have misunderstood him.

I think he meant that, when someone says something like "those damned illegals"...or something...he takes issue.

Not positive.

Click to expand...

Exactly. I do not like illegal immigration, but we as a society have to be careful how we react to it. Shorten the name, whatever. Just don't call illegal immigrants "illegals."

Tigger said:

The whole idea that people are unwilling to look at a situation and actually require people to follow the rules is FAR scarier to me than any label we can place on people for acts that they themselves have committed. The act of crossing into this country illegally is what brands these people with that label. It's an act that can be construed as sabotague and espionage, both of which carry the penalty of DEATH under international statutes.

Click to expand...

And that would make you better than the illegal immigrants how? If that kind of vigilante justice were how we responded, give me illegal immigration over that any day of the week.

Luna Tick said:

They used to always be called "illegal aliens," but now it seems many other terms have surfaced. What do you think is the best term that shows the most intellectual honesty?

Click to expand...

Illegal Immigrant and Illegal Alien seem equally accurate. I really can't think of a more appropriate term.

Aderleth said:

Illegal Immigrant and Illegal Alien seem equally accurate. I really can't think of a more appropriate term.

Click to expand...

I think Illegal Alien might be a better term for people who want them kicked out, because Illegal Immigrant indicates that they have immigrated illegally, as opposed to just entering the country illegally....


If that makes sense...

The Mark said:

I think Illegal Alien might be a better term for people who want them kicked out, because Illegal Immigrant indicates that they have immigrated illegally, as opposed to just entering the country illegally....


If that makes sense...

Click to expand...

I definitely get that. From my perspective that's largely a distinction without a difference.

Aderleth said:

I definitely get that. From my perspective that's largely a distinction without a difference.

Click to expand...

It's a slight difference.

"Alien" would tend to indicate "not from here".

"Immigrant" would also tend to indicate "not from here".

The difference is, an Immigrant is someone who moved from their previous location to a new location and has every plan to stay (or at least that's how I understand it), whereas "Alien" would denote someone who is just visiting...

OscarB63 said:

gak...it never ceases to amaze me at the sheer numbers of people who are completely incapable of recognizing sarcasm.

Click to expand...

maybe you should consider making honest posts from now on, as your poor attempts at sarcasm seem to be constantly failing you.

I say illegal immigrant, because illegal alien makes me think of a bunch of Yoda's force-jumping across the Rio Grande.

spud_meister said:

I say illegal immigrant, because illegal alien makes me think of a bunch of Yoda's force-jumping across the Rio Grande.

Click to expand...

I cannot argue with your logic. I have become thoroughly convinced :mrgreen:

spud_meister said:

I say illegal immigrant, because illegal alien makes me think of a bunch of Yoda's force-jumping across the Rio Grande.

Click to expand...

Only two if these have anything to do with extraterrestrials.
Alien | Define Alien at Dictionary.com
1.
a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization ( distinguished from citizen).
2.
a foreigner.
3.
a person who has been estranged or excluded.
4.
a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial.
adjective
5.
residing under a government or in a country other than that of one's birth without having or obtaining the status of citizenship there.
6.
belonging or relating to aliens: alien property.
7.
unlike one's own; strange; not belonging to one: alien speech.
8.
adverse; hostile; opposed (usually followed by to or from ): ideas alien to modern thinking.
9.
extraterrestrial.

Phys251 said:

I'm not so sure about that. Why specifically does illegal immigration earn the people the label "illegal"? No other criminals get this? Something doesn't add up here.

Click to expand...

A person earns the title "illegal immigrant" by illegally immigrating just like someone earns the title "burglar" by burglarizing or "bank robber" by robbing a bank.

By the poll number so far, the vast majority of people participating in this thread favor some term that includes the word "illegal." I'm glad. I don't want to ever hide the truth that the people who sneak in illegally are criminals. You break the law; you're a criminal. However, many, perhaps even most, of the illegal aliens don't think they've broken any legitimate law. Here's an image from one of their protests:



The people in that photo claim they're indigenous and therefore simply have the right to be here. They don't. If they're from another country, they have to get permission to come here. If they're Mexican, they've also being dishonest about the whole "indigenous to this continent" thing. Mexico also has European origins; it has origins in Spain like the United States has origins in England. Many Mexicans are part Native American. So are many Americans. Mexico is not a Native American tribe that got conquered.

Not also that they call us "squatters." They clearly don't recognize us as the legitimate sovereigns of our territory. And they're surprised that they're not welcome here? The immigrants who are welcomed with open arms are the ones who come wanting to become a part of America. They want to learn our language if they don't already know it and respect our sovereignty and live by our laws.

Here are some more photos of their arrogance:




Really? It actually belongs to them?



And that true history is that Mexico signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and is obligated to abide by it, thus recognizing the sovereignty of the United States over the southwestern states (and all of the other American states).

If the question is altered to "What is the best term to describe a person who unlawfully immigrated the US?" my answer is "dad" in one instance.

Luna Tick, I hate to break this to you, but there are some very good points raised by the photos in your post.

You left out sorry no good dirty bums

Phys251 said:

Luna Tick, I hate to break this to you, but there are some very good points raised by the photos in your post.

Click to expand...

No they don't. Every one of those photos includes signs that have major flaws in their reasoning. And much of it, Luna pointed out.

Most Mexican people have at least a little, if not a lot more, Spanish (and possibly other European) blood in them because Spain colonized Mexico and parts of the US around the same time that other Europeans were colonizing the US and Canada. And plenty of American citizens have Native American blood mixed in with the European even here in the US, including my family. And the treaties and purchases that set up our borders as they are today were legal and legitimate at those times. Our laws are based on what the current legal borders and immigration laws are, not what might have been a couple of hundred years ago.

Illegal aliens.

roguenuke said:

No they don't. Every one of those photos includes signs that have major flaws in their reasoning. And much of it, Luna pointed out.

Most Mexican people have at least a little, if not a lot more, Spanish (and possibly other European) blood in them because Spain colonized Mexico and parts of the US around the same time that other Europeans were colonizing the US and Canada. And plenty of American citizens have Native American blood mixed in with the European even here in the US, including my family. And the treaties and purchases that set up our borders as they are today were legal and legitimate at those times. Our laws are based on what the current legal borders and immigration laws are, not what might have been a couple of hundred years ago.

Click to expand...

Very well said. Thank you. I'd also like to add that the borders that include our 50 states are internationally recognized as being sovereign to the United States. We the people of the United States have the right to decide who gets to come here and who doesn't. Someone who commits the crime of illegally sneaking in and then claiming that he has the right to be here because he's part Native American is speaking garbage. He has no legal leg to stand on.

When they claim it's about race, they're also talking nonsense. Since 1965 our immigration laws have had no racial quotas. Anyone of any race can apply to come here legally. Should we loosen up the regulations and allow more people to come legally? Perhaps. But that doesn't give anyone the right to illegally sneak in. The people in the photos I posted are foreigners hostile to the United States and likely committed a crime by coming here. I have zero sympathy for them. If what I suspect is true, I'm fine with every one of them being arrested and prosecuted and made to serve time in prison. At the end of their prison term, they should be deported with a permanent ban on ever coming here again with much harsher penalties if they violate that ban.

The foreigners I have sympathy for are the ones who apply to come legally and play by the rules. I don't care what country they're from or what race they are. If they do that, I'm ready and willing to welcome them.

Luna Tick said:

Very well said. Thank you. I'd also like to add that the borders that include our 50 states are internationally recognized as being sovereign to the United States. We the people of the United States have the right to decide who gets to come here and who doesn't. Someone who commits the crime of illegally sneaking in and then claiming that he has the right to be here because he's part Native American is speaking garbage. He has no legal leg to stand on.

When they claim it's about race, they're also talking nonsense. Since 1965 our immigration laws have had no racial quotas. Anyone of any race can apply to come here legally. Should we loosen up the regulations and allow more people to come legally? Perhaps. But that doesn't give anyone the right to illegally sneak in. The people in the photos I posted are foreigners hostile to the United States and likely committed a crime by coming here. I have zero sympathy for them. If what I suspect is true, I'm fine with every one of them being arrested and prosecuted and made to serve time in prison. At the end of their prison term, they should be deported with a permanent ban on ever coming here again with much harsher penalties if they violate that ban.

The foreigners I have sympathy for are the ones who apply to come legally and play by the rules. I don't care what country they're from or what race they are. If they do that, I'm ready and willing to welcome them.

Click to expand...

I notice their signs say they are ingenious to this continent. Which is an absurd statement. I think if Cherokees trespassed into Mexico holding signs that say they are indigenous to this Continent the Mexican government would laugh their ass off and toss them in jail and deport them. If I trespassed into Italy and held a sign that said I am indigenous to this continent the Italian government would probably laugh their ass off and deport me or possibly toss in me jail first before deporting me.