What is the best term to describe a person who unlawfully enters the US?

DashingAmerican said:

That would be easy.

"Let me see your green card."
If he/she runs, they're illegal.

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Or possibly, from an area of the world where law enforcement may be corrupt to a point we would never accept here in the USA.

And thus, scared of such persons.


Or, also possibly, had forgotten their green card and for similar reasons didn't think "I don't have it right now" would be acceptable.


There needs to be, at the least, a slight amount of leeway to allow for such situations.

Guy Incognito said:

So many racists in this thread, so little time...

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Who said something racist?


Nothing in here about being against illegal immigration or calling illegals "illegal aliens","illegal immigrants" or just "illegals.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

They are illegal aliens. They are criminals that need to go through the judicial system.

Guy Incognito said:

So many racists in this thread, so little time...

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Where do you see this?

If they are in the US illegally without the the intention of staying long term, illegal alien would be the term. If they intend to stay then illegal immigrant

It doesnbt matter if they are from Mexico, Canada or China

A criminal. Let's not play word games and call a spade a spade. They are breaking the law, they are criminals.

digsbe said:

They are illegal aliens. They are criminals that need to go through the judicial system.



Where do you see this?

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guys like gay incontinent see racism everywhere. it doesn't have to exist for them to see it. they KNOW it is there.

Guy Incognito said:

It doesn't matter if they have "definitely done it" or not. Even if they really are undocumented immigrants, they are presumed innocent until adjudicated guilty. What they did in reality is irrelevant, the presumption of innocence remains until the adjudication of guilt.

I guess it's reasonable to call undocumented immigrants "suspected illegal immigrants," but that's a stretch. There are millions of undocumented immigrants, and most are not going to ever be adjudicated guilty of illegal immigration. That's just a fact of life.

So you have two reasons, really, why undocumented is a better term. First it is a literally the most correct, and least circuitous, appellation. Second, calling somebody an "illegal immigrant" or worse an "illegal," especially if they have not been found guilty of unlawful immigration, is a bigoted slur.

So the term "undocumented immigrant" is both accurate and polite. Whereas the term "illegal immigrant" is both inaccurate and racist. This is a no brainer.

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I respect your point of view, but, honestly, it's just not adding up. If I come home to find my house ransacked, I don't say, "An alleged burglar has been here." I just call'em a burglar. Since I don't know specifically who did it, and I definitely know a crime has been committed, I don't think I have any obligation to apply court standards to my language. If someone gets arrested for the crime and put on trial, then I'll call him or her the alleged burglar. We know for certain many people sneak into the country illegally. When speaking about them generally, it seems reasonable to call them illegal aliens. If a specific person were arrested for it and put on trial, then I would definitely qualify with "alleged" or "suspected." The person does of course have right to be presumed innocent unless proven otherwise. However, "undocumented immigrant" just smacks of intellectual dishonesty. It's inaccurate. For one thing, many of them have documentation. Many obtain fraudulent documents before coming here. Many have legitimate documentation such as a valid drivers license from another country. Neither of this documentation gives someone the right to violate American law (and the former is itself a violation of the law).

The word "illegal" isn't racist either because it can refer to anyone of any race. Anyone who sneaks into the country illegally is an illegal just like anyone who burglarizes a home is a burglar. There's no race involved at all in any of this language. If someone calls a person and "illegal spic," then that's racist, but the word "illegal is not the one that made it that way.

I do think "unauthorized" is a better term than "undocumented." A person who sneaks in illegally may or may not have documents, but he's definitely unauthorized. When I read articles on this subject and the author has used the "undocumented" term, I immediately lose respect for their credibility. I don't react the same way when they say "illegal" or "unauthorized." To me to call an illegal "undocumented" is like calling a burglar an "unexpected borrower of possessions." Call'em what they really are without trying to sugar-coat their crime.

Using the word "illegal" as a noun carries all sorts of connotations that I would rather not think about. The idea that a very person--not their actions, but their being--is illegal, is far scarier than illegal immigration could ever hope to be.

There really isn't any shortcut, IMO, to "illegal immigrant."

Phys251 said:

Using the word "illegal" as a noun carries all sorts of connotations that I would rather not think about. The idea that a very person--not their actions, but their being--is illegal, is far scarier than illegal immigration could ever hope to be.

There really isn't any shortcut, IMO, to "illegal immigrant."

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What?

Why the hell would "illegal immigrant" mean the "very person" was illegal? The use of the term immigrant in that phrase means that it's an illegal immigrant, as opposed to a legal one. Denoting the general illegality of their immigration into the country.

I suppose Illegal Alien might be better, because it gives the impression that they aren't here to stay, as opposed to the "Illegal Immigrant" term.

But the "Illegal" part most definitely denotes their action, not the person itself...wtf?

Lord Tammerlain said:

If they are in the US illegally without the the intention of staying long term, illegal alien would be the term. If they intend to stay then illegal immigrant

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Yes, I would agree. An illegal alien is violating our territorial sovereignty. An illegal immigrant is merely violating our established procedures for handling immigrants.

Lord Tammerlain said:

It doesnbt matter if they are from Mexico, Canada or China

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Mexico or China, I would agree with. As far as I am concerned, the Canadian and American governments are a political division of the same nation.

Guy Incognito said:

It doesn't matter if they have "definitely done it" or not. Even if they really are undocumented immigrants, they are presumed innocent until adjudicated guilty. What they did in reality is irrelevant, the presumption of innocence remains until the adjudication of guilt.

I guess it's reasonable to call undocumented immigrants "suspected illegal immigrants," but that's a stretch. There are millions of undocumented immigrants, and most are not going to ever be adjudicated guilty of illegal immigration. That's just a fact of life.

So you have two reasons, really, why undocumented is a better term. First it is a literally the most correct, and least circuitous, appellation. Second, calling somebody an "illegal immigrant" or worse an "illegal," especially if they have not been found guilty of unlawful immigration, is a bigoted slur.

So the term "undocumented immigrant" is both accurate and polite. Whereas the term "illegal immigrant" is both inaccurate and racist. This is a no brainer.

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Here, here.

The Mark said:

What?

Why the hell would "illegal immigrant" mean the "very person" was illegal? The use of the term immigrant in that phrase means that it's an illegal immigrant, as opposed to a legal one. Denoting the general illegality of their immigration into the country.

I suppose Illegal Alien might be better, because it gives the impression that they aren't here to stay, as opposed to the "Illegal Immigrant" term.

But the "Illegal" part most definitely denotes their action, not the person itself...wtf?

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I'd have to agree. "Illegal" refers to the action they've taken. A person who illegally comes into the country is an illegal. A person who burglarizes is a burglar. Neither description is the essence of who the person is. I would hope a burglar might quit committing that crime and find some honest way to make a living. I would also hope that illegal aliens might one day learn to respect American sovereignty. I'd doubt they will, but one can hope.

Luna Tick said:

I'd have to agree. "Illegal" refers to the action they've taken. A person who illegally comes into the country is an illegal. A person who burglarizes is a burglar. Neither description is the essence of who the person is. I would hope a burglar might quit committing that crime and find some honest way to make a living. I would also hope that illegal aliens might one day learn to respect American sovereignty. I'd doubt they will, but one can hope.

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Actually, I think that I might have misunderstood him.

I think he meant that, when someone says something like "those damned illegals"...or something...he takes issue.

Not positive.

OscarB63 said:

guys like gay incontinent see racism everywhere. it doesn't have to exist for them to see it. they KNOW it is there.

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I guess it's just a matter of definition.

Some examples of different races:

• White (Caucasian)
• Black (Negroid)
• Asian
• American Indian
• Hispanic
• Someone who is illegally in any place that he doesn't belong

So, by this definition, if you have anything against someone being in a place that he has no right to be, then that makes you a racist.

Phys251 said:

Using the word "illegal" as a noun carries all sorts of connotations that I would rather not think about. The idea that a very person--not their actions, but their being--is illegal, is far scarier than illegal immigration could ever hope to be.

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The whole idea that people are unwilling to look at a situation and actually require people to follow the rules is FAR scarier to me than any label we can place on people for acts that they themselves have committed. The act of crossing into this country illegally is what brands these people with that label. It's an act that can be construed as sabotague and espionage, both of which carry the penalty of DEATH under international statutes.

Tigger said:

The whole idea that people are unwilling to look at a situation and actually require people to follow the rules is FAR scarier to me than any label we can place on people for acts that they themselves have committed. The act of crossing into this country illegally is what brands these people with that label. It's an act that can be construed as sabotague and espionage, both of which carry the penalty of DEATH under international statutes.

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When exactly did trying to make money to support your family become "sabotague [sic] and espionage"?

Guy Incognito said:

The best term is "undocumented immigrant," because it is the most accurate descriptor. In America we consider a person innocent until proven guilty. Calling someone an "illegal immigrant" implies that they have immigrated in violation of the law. A person who has immigrated without documentation cannot be an "illegal immigrant" until they have been adjudicated as such. Until adjudication, their status as legal or illegal is indeterminate, and presumed innocent.

Calling someone who has immigrated improperly an "illegal" immigrant is incorrect because it prematurely imputes a legal conclusion that has not yet been established for that person. When you call an undocumented immigrant an "illegal immigrant," you are essentially convicting them without due process.

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I'll give you credit, this is the first time I've ever seen anyone give a legitimate reason to g owith "undocumented immigrant".

Hmm... Mexican?

OscarB63 said:

yeah, and that statue was a gift from the French. let them take in all the illegal scum of the earth.

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Hmm. The statue was a gift. The pedestal, on which I suppose is written the aforementioned inscription, is your own making. Time to own up to it, dontcha think?

paris said:

Hmm. The statue was a gift. The pedestal, on which I suppose is written the aforementioned inscription, is your own making. Time to own up to it, dontcha think?

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Doesn't matter what's written on any pedestals, that's not U.S. immigration law. Try again.

Cephus said:

Doesn't matter what's written on any pedestals, that's not U.S. immigration law. Try again.

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lol. Oscar implied that the French were responsible for that inscription. That is wrong. Learn your history.

Here's a summary if you are afraid of opening a book:

Target Practice??

paris said:

lol. Oscar implied that the French were responsible for that inscription. That is wrong. Learn your history.

Here's a summary if you are afraid of opening a book:

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gak...it never ceases to amaze me at the sheer numbers of people who are completely incapable of recognizing sarcasm.

ksu_aviator said:

Target Practice??

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best answer yet.

paris said:

lol. Oscar implied that the French were responsible for that inscription. That is wrong. Learn your history.

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I never claimed anything of the sort. What I said is still factually true. The pedestal of the Statue of Liberty is not U.S. immigration law. Deal with reality.