Ammunition

Good point, what should the cops carry (ammunition wise) ie what is in their standard magazine?

Jryan said:

I seriously suggest you take a long hard look at your life, if you seriously believe beating a child teaches them ANYTHING then I feel petty for your children and you yourself. If you would like books to read on this (which there are to many for me to list), please feel free to ask for that suggestion. In fact, I would say beating a child probably contributed to them stealing rather than them learning.

Click to expand...

that certainly was not my experience - when my momma tanned my butt, I learned quite quickly. Going through bootcamp, the same lesson was applied - though then I was forced to apply the pain to myself. As a parent, I have learned that there are times when you have to smack the hand or the bottom. The trick isn't "no pain", but rather, use consistency and act out of consistency rather than anger. We have a little chart that hangs in the kitchen, and lists specific misbehaviors (IE: hitting your little brother) that are matched to specific punishments (popped with a wooden spoon). Within that, the child can move the punishment up or down by follow-on behavior. For example, if my son lies about what he did and then fights me, he will get popped three times, hard enough to actually cause pain. If he is honest, apologizes to his brother, and then doesn't fight me, he will only get popped once, and then only hard enough to sting a little bit - really just enough so that we have consistently applied the punishment matched to the crime. That teaches him that once he's already in a hole, stop digging.

cpwill said:

that certainly was not my experience - when my momma tanned my butt, I learned quite quickly. Going through bootcamp, the same lesson was applied - though then I was forced to apply the pain to myself. As a parent, I have learned that there are times when you have to smack the hand or the bottom. The trick isn't "no pain", but rather, use consistency and act out of consistency rather than anger. We have a little chart that hangs in the kitchen, and lists specific misbehaviors (IE: hitting your little brother) that are matched to specific punishments (popped with a wooden spoon). Within that, the child can move the punishment up or down by follow-on behavior. For example, if my son lies about what he did and then fights me, he will get popped three times, hard enough to actually cause pain. If he is honest, apologizes to his brother, and then doesn't fight me, he will only get popped once, and then only hard enough to sting a little bit - really just enough so that we have consistently applied the punishment matched to the crime. That teaches him that once he's already in a hole, stop digging.

Click to expand...

No recommended reading I see? This teaches your children nothing which every book ever written (with exception to literature that is spoken or certain biblical books) says otherwise. You are merely following your parents ideologies and that is sick. Read books, I will provide a list if you ask.

TurtleDude said:

556 Quad in the M4

AP, Tracer, Hollowpoint, ball

Click to expand...

I always front-loaded and end-loaded tracer; buuut, I wasn't loading for home defense. for home defense, I don't really see myself carrying anything other than some form of round designed to go into an object and stop moving; it's too hard to know where the round will go in such a confined space.

Exception: my wifes' pistol is loaded with Federal round designed specifically to go through things. that is because her response is to grab the boys, run to the bedroom, aim at the center of the door, and then shoot the center of the door if someone tries to jimmy the handle.

Jryan said:

No recommended reading I see? This teaches your children nothing which every book ever written (with exception to literature that is spoken or certain biblical books) says otherwise. You are merely following your parents ideologies and that is sick. Read books, I will provide a list if you ask.

Click to expand...

I'm sure there are plenty of new age books out there about how i should raise my child to learn instead that he has no real reason to obey authority. If you like, I could give you a list about how family structures are changing and that's wonderful and okay... and then I could give you a list of how moving away from traditional family structures has wrecked entire demographics.

I think I'll go with the experience of the past 5,000 years or so of recorded human history instead, thanks .

Jryan said:

I seriously suggest you take a long hard look at your life, if you seriously believe beating a child teaches them ANYTHING then I feel petty for your children and you yourself. If you would like books to read on this (which there are to many for me to list), please feel free to ask for that suggestion. In fact, I would say beating a child probably contributed to them stealing rather than them learning.

Click to expand...

Son, once again you are clueless. You assume I'm simply some ignorant redneck who doesn't know any better, blah blah blah.... I'm a college educated man who has run an office with 27 employees.

How many children have YOU raised? I've raised one of my own, and was substitute-Daddy for two of my sister's kids when their old man died, and I'm currently helping a single mother raise her two boys.

My views on child-rearing are on DP. Do a search and you'll turn lots of stuff up.

In sum I am a firm believer in several things regarding child-rearing. Number one is love: daily, demonstrated, proven in both word and deed, warmth and self-sacrifice. You have no clue how much I've sacrificed for my own child, bub. Number two is discipline: firm, consistent, measured and proportional, applied without fail every time it is needed.

Discipline can be applied in a number of ways. Verbal correction, verbal scolding, time outs, loss of privileges... and spanking. Spanking is not preferred, but is rather a last resort or used for "capital offenses": safety issues and open defiance.

Every child is different. Some learn to behave without ever being spanked. Some require a LOT of spanking before they will even BEGIN to accept that there are external boundaries to their behavior. It depends.

When they're pre-school age it is difficult, because they aren't very susceptible to reason and are very forgetful. When it comes to open defiance or doing things that are dangerous, it is often necessary to reinforce words with a spanking. This aids in remembering that it is IMPORTANT not to run out into the road without looking.

As they grow older a properly-disciplined child will rarely require a spanking. Do it right and start early and you probably won't ever need to lay a finger on them when they're past 7 or 8.

That's the problem these days: people are afraid to properly discipline their child, so their all-but-grown "child" does stupid **** like steal beer from a neighbors' house, an activity that is both unlawful and liable to result in a LOT worse than a mere spanking.

My 0.02

Jryan said:

Good point, what should the cops carry (ammunition wise) ie what is in their standard magazine?

Click to expand...

Normally hollowpoint

the most popular police and LEO loads include

1) federal Hydrashock

2) Remington Golden saber

3) Hornady Critical defense

4) winchester-ranger (DHS issued) hollowpoints

5) Winchester "silver tips"

Goshin said:

You're damn right it does. Pain is one of the most effective ways of saying "dont do that again." I personally prefer reasoning with people, but if someone has lived 16 years on this Earth and not learned that stealing **** from someone's house is Big Bad Thing, then they probably need to suffer some pain to see to it the dumbass mother****er remembers next time.

Thieves suck. It isn't a prank, it isn't funny, it is THEFT.

And again, a 16yo may be a minor but not a "child". You make it sound like a teen stealing beer is a widdle four year old. He isn't.

Click to expand...

Truth. I can think of quite a few stores around where I used to live where the clerk kept a shot-gun and would have blown away anyone threatening him in order to steal from a store: 16 or not.

People are not naturally law-abiding, peaceful, kind, generous, happy citizens. People are naturally savages. When you raise a child to believe that they can act like a savage without severe consequence, you are effectively refusing to civilize him, and civilization may one day kill him for that.

Discipline can be applied in a number of ways. Verbal correction, verbal scolding, time outs, loss of privileges... and spanking. Spanking is not preferred, but is rather a last resort or used for "capital offenses": safety issues and open defiance.

Click to expand...

Have you ever considered capital offenses to be the problem? Could I recommend a book on the subject? You seem ignorant on the subject. Not saying you are a country redneck, you just seem to be okaying it because it was okayed yesterday.

TurtleDude said:

Normally hollowpoint

the most popular police and LEO loads include

1) federal Hydrashock

2) Remington Golden saber

3) Hornady Critical defense

4) winchester-ranger (DHS issued) hollowpoints

5) Winchester "silver tips"

Click to expand...

I thought you were a lawyer...

TurtleDude said:

Normally hollowpoint

the most popular police and LEO loads include

1) federal Hydrashock

Click to expand...

that's what I got for my wife on the recommendation of a friend who understands pistol rounds much better than I do.

Pistol knowledge is a weakness of mine.


what do you think of tactical safeties and fingerprint identification locks? as our boys get older, we were thinking about getting the latter, and programming it for ourselves.

Jryan said:

Have you ever considered capital offenses to be the problem? Could I recommend a book on the subject? You seem ignorant on the subject. Not saying you are a country redneck, you just seem to be okaying it because it was okayed yesterday.

Click to expand...

color me curious - how many children do you have?

cpwill said:

color me curious - how many children do you have?

Click to expand...

What does that have to do with this conversation?

Jryan said:

I thought you were a lawyer...

Click to expand...

and a world class shooter and well known expert on defensive shooting. I had to shoot someone when I was a grad student. I became expert on that subject. and I noted I was a prosecuting attorney at some point. I also represented a major league police agency in shooting litigation.

I can advise you what to choose for self defense and if you have to whack a cockroach I can help you there too.

Jyran said:

What does that have to do with this conversation?

Click to expand...

So... none?




what it has to do with the conversation is that RW experience outweighs self-described experts pontificating in books. You have two people who are parents here who have had positive experiences with working spanking into a disciplinary regime. So I am curious as to your personal experience raising children without it.

TurtleDude said:

and a world class shooter and well known expert on defensive shooting. I had to shoot someone when I was a grad student. I became expert on that subject. and I noted I was a prosecuting attorney at some point. I also represented a major league police agency in shooting litigation.

I can advise you what to choose for self defense and if you have to whack a cockroach I can help you there too.

Click to expand...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-t...-judicial-system-unfair-personal-account.html

You didn't respond to my thread though , which does pertain to this thread, I sort of would like to know if I can get a gun myself. Oddly enough, this thread has convinced me that I should own one if I legally can.

cpwill said:

So... none?




what it has to do with the conversation is that RW experience outweighs self-described experts pontificating in books. You have two people who are parents here who have had positive experiences with working spanking into a disciplinary regime. So I am curious as to your personal experience raising children without it.

Click to expand...

You just excluded psychologist and neuroscience, wow... I didn't think anyone could ever do this on the subject.

Jryan said:

Have you ever considered capital offenses to be the problem? Could I recommend a book on the subject? You seem ignorant on the subject. Not saying you are a country redneck, you just seem to be okaying it because it was okayed yesterday.

Click to expand...

Again, you're making mighty big assumption without knowing me.

I grew up in the era of Dr. Spock. No, not the guy with the ears on Star Trek, the first big-name Doctor to write a book on child-rearing that said Don't Spank.

MY parents didn't hold with Dr Spock. They applied a switch or belt when they felt it was necessary, though not really that often. They raised 4 well-behaved children who are now mature adults, not one of which has ever spent a single night in jail.

I SAW with my own eyes, growing up and as a young man, children whose parents refused to spank, were afraid to scold too harshly, and in short were very light-handed with the discipline. Mostly it didn't work out too good; lots of their kids turned out to be undisciplined rogues who made bad choices and ****ed up their own lives and the lives of others... a fair few of the spoiled little darlin's ended up on the wrong side of the law and are currently doing life in prison.

Now I have this strange facility that springs from the frontal lobes of my brain: the ability to observe the behavior of others and see what works and what doesn't. From what I've seen the two keys to raising a child who becomes a successful and happy adult are 1. Lots of love and 2. as much consistent discipline as necessary, including spankings when young if needed.

Read a book? Hell I'm writing one. It's called Beat that Ass: How to Raise Children Even Your Neighbors Will Love. :lamo

Jryan said:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-t...-judicial-system-unfair-personal-account.html

You didn't respond to my thread though , which does pertain to this thread, I sort of would like to know if I can get a gun myself. Oddly enough, this thread has convinced me that I should own one if I legally can.

Click to expand...

if you are over 21 you can-what state are you in

so yes. you who are here lecturing us on how to raise our own children, have raised precisely zero yourself.

TurtleDude said:

if you are over 21 you can-what state are you in

Click to expand...

Just so you know it was a deferred prosecution. North Carolina BTW.

Goshin said:

Again, you're making mighty big assumption without knowing me.

I grew up in the era of Dr. Spock. No, not the guy with the ears on Star Trek, the first big-name Doctor to write a book on child-rearing that said Don't Spank.

MY parents didn't hold with Dr Spock. They applied a switch or belt when they felt it was necessary, though not really that often. They raised 4 well-behaved children who are now mature adults, not one of which has ever spent a single night in jail.

I SAW with my own eyes, growing up and as a young man, children whose parents refused to spank, were afraid to scold too harshly, and in short were very light-handed with the discipline. Mostly it didn't work out too good; lots of their kids turned out to be undisciplined rogues who made bad choices and ****ed up their own lives and the lives of others... a fair few of the spoiled little darlin's ended up on the wrong side of the law and are currently doing life in prison.

Now I have this strange facility that springs from the frontal lobes of my brain: the ability to observe the behavior of others and see what works and what doesn't. From what I've seen the two keys to raising a child who becomes a successful and happy adult are 1. Lots of love and 2. as much consistent discipline as necessary, including spankings when young if needed.

Read a book? Hell I'm writing one. It's called Beat that Ass: How to Raise Children Even Your Neighbors Will Love.

Click to expand...

spare the rod, you'll spoil the child. spoiled children tend to fail as adults.

See: Occupy Wall Street Movement.

MY parents didn't hold with Dr Spock. They applied a switch or belt when they felt it was necessary, though not really that often. They raised 4 well-behaved children who are now mature adults, not one of which has ever spent a single night in jail.

Click to expand...

Could that not be because the children weren't scolded? How does that have anything to do with beating a child. Beating a child only has to do with instilling fear.

Read a book? Hell I'm writing one. It's called Beat that Ass: How to Raise Children Even Your Neighbors Will Love.

Click to expand...

Ignorance is bliss.

cpwill said:

so yes. you who are here lecturing us on how to raise our own children, have raised precisely zero yourself.

Click to expand...

That is no way near as bad (the poster of course has been subjected to parenting by his father) as economic failures telling us high bracket taxpayers how much they know about economics

Jryan said:

Could that not be because the children weren't scolded? How does that have anything to do with beating a child. Beating a child only has to do with instilling fear.

Click to expand...

says who? It certainly had more effects on that for me, and it certainly does on my sons. Spanking works just like any other punishment - If you do X, then Y will happen to you, so don't do X.

I mean, legitimate fear should be part of it - the child should know "if I do x then y will happen to me, and I don't want that" - but that is part of any consistent disciplinary regime, irrespective of whether or not it includes spanking.

you seem to have "spanking as part of a consistent, loving disciplinary regime" confused with "inconsistent/drunken beating".

Ignorance is bliss.

Click to expand...

yeah. he's ignorant. because he's raised multiple children successfully. whereas you are experienced because you can google a book list?