View Poll Results: Should all ammunition be legal?

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    22 56.41%
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Thread: Ammunition

  1. #21
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    Re: Ammunition

    Anyway, in most gunfights skill trumps gear. Or in the words of the immortal Colonel Cooper, "It ain't the arrow, it's the Injun shooting it."

    Top quality weapons and ammo and so on is good, take every advantage you can.... but skill and judgement are the keys to surviving a gunfight.



    (not to mention a certain amount of dumb luck. It ain't the bullet with your name on it to fear, it's all those other bullets addressed "To Whom It May Concern"...)
    Last edited by Goshin; 10-09-11 at 02:01 PM.

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  2. #22
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    Re: Ammunition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    A gad guy in a crowded area isn't going to care if his bullet over penetrates and kills another innocent civilian.

    Well if we're allegely trying to make society safer by banning hollowpoints, WE care, don't we? And by banning HP's we're making people LESS safe...

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  3. #23
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    Re: Ammunition

    Okay, fine, HP's shouldn't be banned. How about tracer rounds? This would give a person in a night fight the advantage over the cops (Especially if they are using an automatic weapon )
    Last edited by Jryan; 10-09-11 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Edited for type-o

  4. #24
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    Re: Ammunition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    Okay, fine, FMJ's shouldn't be banned. How about tracer rounds? This would give a person in a night fight the advantage over the cops (Especially if they are using an automatic weapon )

    Find me ONE case of BGs using a full auto weapon with tracer rounds in a night-fight with cops and we'll talk about it.


    (FMJs are "full metal jacket" or "hardball". HP is "hollowpoint". HPs are what you want in your handgun.)
    Last edited by Goshin; 10-09-11 at 01:59 PM.

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  5. #25
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    Re: Ammunition

    After doing some research, I found this Winchester Ranger T. Should everyone be able to buy that?

  6. #26
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    Re: Ammunition

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Find me ONE case of BGs using a full auto weapon with tracer rounds in a night-fight with cops and we'll talk about it.


    (FMJs are "full metal jacket" or "hardball". HP is "hollowpoint". HPs are what you want in your handgun.)
    I guess you are right here, the only people that would be able to take advantage of the tracer round would be military. Everyone else is just lacking the training to use it properly.

  7. #27
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    Re: Ammunition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    After doing some research, I found this Winchester Ranger T. Should everyone be able to buy that?

    I'll have to Google, even I don't know every single type and brand of ammo on the market.... hold on....

    Mmmkay...


    Review: Winchester Ranger T-Series 45 ACP Self Defense Ammo
    Potent and Rock Solid 45 ACP Law Enforcement Ammunition
    Dan S. Defense,
    The origin of the T-series began with the famous or infamous Talon line that started as general self defense ammo and later pulled off the market after being demonized by the media. In reality, the Black Talon wasn't a very effective bullet because it didn't expand as expected, especially after encountering a few layers of denim..... Winchester invested significant resources in analyzing the problems of the Black Talon and later developed the SXT line which turned out to be far superior to the Black Talon. The T-Series continues the legacy as advanced self defense ammo coveted by law enforcement and serious individuals.

    The Winchester Ranger T-Series utilizes a reverse taper jacket design that manages to produce consistent and reliable bullet expansion through several test barriers. Whether the barrier be denim or a car's windshield or dry wall or even steel, the advanced Winchester Ranger ammo penetrates and expands in a consistent and impressive manner. In addition to these critical properties, the Winchester Ranger line offer excellent accuracy with smooth feeding in any good handgun. Reliability is legendary ....You need to be sure you can maintain high level of accuracy with the bullet of your choice and keep in mind that both types of bullet are exceptionally potent. For example, the T-Series will penetrate heavy clothing as far as 12.3" and expand 0.75" while retaining 100% of its initial weight with perfect expansion. The +P bullet will penetrate 15.7" and expand 0.78" against the same type of barrier. You can view the entire set of tests as well as see the recovered bullet under this excellent Winchester ammo test tool.
    I checked their ammo test stats on the Ranger T bullet. The stats are about penetration of denim, heavy cloth and wallboard, not kevlar vests.

    Give me a good reason citizens should be banned from using this ammo?

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  8. #28
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    Re: Ammunition

    I checked their ammo test stats on the Ranger T bullet. The stats are about penetration of denim, heavy cloth and wallboard, not kevlar vests.

    Give me a good reason citizens should be banned from using this ammo?
    This is a one shot one kill bullet. This would give no chance for officers to respond.

  9. #29
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    Re: Ammunition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    This is a one shot one kill bullet. This would give no chance for officers to respond.

    Have you been listening? There is no such thing. I could take a Ranger T in the arm or leg and keep shooting back. If one hit me through the upper chest and pierced my lung but missed my heart and major arteries, I could probably shoot back. If they got me through the heart or aorta or spine or brain or femoral artery, I'm probably done for no matter what kind of bullet we're talking about.

    Load a .45 handgun with a Ranger T hollowpoint round. Then compare it to a bolt-action 30-06 deer rifle. I guarantee you the deer rifle will penetrate a standard police vest... the RangerT might or might not, it isn't advertised as a vest-penetrating round. The deer rifle bullet will likely do more damage through yaw and hydrostatic shock, and the rifle bullet is MORE likely to result in instant or rapid incapacitation through affecting blood pressure.

    If you're so worried about all this, you should start with banning all rifle ammo. That's not going to endear you to millions of hunters and sportsmen. Then you'd better ban shotguns, because they're pretty devastating.


    So it makes a bigger hole than most handgun bullets. As long as the hole is in the OTHER guy, I'm fine with that. The key to making sure it is the OTHER GUY that gets holes in him has nothing to do with ammo; it has to do with awareness, readiness, judgement, tactics, and skill with arms.


    Like I said in the the other thread... we're talking about WEAPONS, they're SUPPOSED to be dangerous!

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  10. #30
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    Re: Ammunition

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Have you been listening? There is no such thing. I could take a Ranger T in the arm or leg and keep shooting back. If one hit me through the upper chest and pierced my lung but missed my heart and major arteries, I could probably shoot back. If they got me through the heart or aorta or spine or brain or femoral artery, I'm probably done for no matter what kind of bullet we're talking about.

    Load a .45 handgun with a Ranger T hollowpoint round. Then compare it to a bolt-action 30-06 deer rifle. I guarantee you the deer rifle will penetrate a standard police vest... the RangerT might or might not, it isn't advertised as a vest-penetrating round. The deer rifle bullet will likely do more damage through yaw and hydrostatic shock, and the rifle bullet is MORE likely to result in instant or rapid incapacitation through affecting blood pressure.

    If you're so worried about all this, you should start with banning all rifle ammo. That's not going to endear you to millions of hunters and sportsmen. Then you'd better ban shotguns, because they're pretty devastating.


    So it makes a bigger hole than most handgun bullets. As long as the hole is in the OTHER guy, I'm fine with that. The key to making sure it is the OTHER GUY that gets holes in him has nothing to do with ammo; it has to do with awareness, readiness, judgement, tactics, and skill with arms.


    Like I said in the the other thread... we're talking about WEAPONS, they're SUPPOSED to be dangerous!
    I guess you are right. (Insert bow smiley here)

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