View Poll Results: Should the GOP should fear the 99% movement

Voters
106. You may not vote on this poll
  • Absolutely should fear it

    33 31.13%
  • Somewhat fear it

    9 8.49%
  • Fear it a little bit

    3 2.83%
  • Fear it a tiny bit

    3 2.83%
  • Absolutely nothing to fear

    47 44.34%
  • Don't know

    1 0.94%
  • Don't care

    6 5.66%
  • Other (explian)

    4 3.77%
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Thread: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

  1. #311
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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So your opinion is that 1/3 of the country just isn't trying hard enough. Got it, I'll pass that on the the protesters and the voters in next year's election.
    no, that's not my opinion.

    want another try at it?

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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    no, that's not my opinion.

    want another try at it?
    defeatists, pessimists, and cynics will never win the game, though.
    You mean you have more???
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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I could be wrong, but US protesters in the US don't seem to be demonstrating about conditions in Sweden. However:
    Sweden has one of the lowest income inequalities in the world, and is normally described as paradise by the protesters. Still wealth inequality is massive.

    My point is, your figures are misleading. The figures you should be using is income inequality, not wealth inequality.

    "Income and wealth inequality reached a new peak in 2007, the highest level of inequality since 1929. William Domhoff details this inequality in the following terms:

    In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%

    Real median household income in the U.S. is $49,777 today. It was $52,388 in 1999 before George Bush took office. This is a 5% decline over ten years. Even more disturbing is the fact that the top 20% of households showed real increases in income. The bottom 50% lost income during the last ten years, with the bottom 20% losing 8% of income over this time frame. No wonder there is so much anger among the working middle class in the country regarding the bailout for the top 1%. Sixty million households make less today than they made 10 years ago. The policies of the Federal Reserve over the last ten years have benefitted speculators and punished seniors, savers and the working middle class. Every policy, program and regulation rolled out by the Federal Reserve in the last three years has been to prop up, enrich, and support their Too Big To Fail Wall Street owners. The middle class American working family is Too Small To Matter"

    Grapes Of Wrath 2011 - Wealth inequality highest since 1929 - International Business Times
    No one likes massive income inequality. But people seem to not understand the causes of income inequality. US already have one of the most progressive tax systems in the world. That is not what is causing the income ineuality. Also bank regulation is more than many other countries in the world.

    Take a look at the chart below, to see what income inequality was. The caption, is a little bit off, because both the house and the senate was democratic from 1987 - 1995. Also, republicans were the most dominant political force from 1995 - 2007. That's a period income inequality hardly increased. So both Democrats and Republicans have overseen periods of larger increases in income inequality. You can't blame one party.

    What are the causes of income inequality?
    1. Immigration.
    2. Lack of proper schooling for the poor in America
    3. Globalization

    If you realize the causes of income inequality, then you will realize that reducing the income inequality is a little bit more complicated than what the Wall Street Protestors are thinking.

    Last edited by Camlon; 10-13-11 at 08:00 PM.

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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You mean you have more???
    huh?

    I asked you if you wanted another try at discerning my opinion... you failed to get it right the first time.

    sooo.. do you want another try or not?

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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Sweden has one of the lowest income inequalities in the world, and is normally described as paradise by the protesters. Still wealth inequality is massive.

    My point is, your figures are misleading. The figures you should be using is income inequality, not wealth inequality.
    I reject your perspective.

    "We also need to distinguish wealth from income. Income is what people earn from work, but also from dividends, interest, and any rents or royalties that are paid to them on properties they own. In theory, those who own a great deal of wealth may or may not have high incomes, depending on the returns they receive from their wealth, but in reality those at the very top of the wealth distribution usually have the most income. (But it's important to note that for the rich, most of that income does not come from "working": in 2008, only 19% of the income reported by the 13,480 individuals or families making over $10 million came from wages and salaries. See Norris, 2010, for more details.)"

    "In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2010)."

    "In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity. The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate. Since financial wealth is what counts as far as the control of income-producing assets, we can say that just 10% of the people own the United States of America."

    Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power
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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I reject your perspective.

    "We also need to distinguish wealth from income. Income is what people earn from work, but also from dividends, interest, and any rents or royalties that are paid to them on properties they own. In theory, those who own a great deal of wealth may or may not have high incomes, depending on the returns they receive from their wealth, but in reality those at the very top of the wealth distribution usually have the most income. (But it's important to note that for the rich, most of that income does not come from "working": in 2008, only 19% of the income reported by the 13,480 individuals or families making over $10 million came from wages and salaries. See Norris, 2010, for more details.)"
    I don't really respect your superbiased source, just so know it. You can just drop the source and say whatever you think, because your source has just as much credibility as any forum user.

    If everyone was economists professors in macroeconomics, then maybe it wouldn't be misleading. But it is certainally misleading to say 1% own 31% of the wealth, when that is normal in every single country on Earth. I mean, half of the population won't really have savings. Then there is a group of superrich who save up most of their income. That is good, because we need people to invest in the US. Hence, every single country on earth has high wealth inequality. It's not a problem. That is just how markets work. The share of the poor could radically increase with forced saving schemes. Will that improve the inequality in the US?

    What really matters is income. Most people earn income, and most income in the US is earned by wages, salaries, interests, bonusus, etc. Income inequality gives us a much better picture of inequaity. I think you are just using wealth inequality, because you want to create a shock effect.
    Last edited by Camlon; 10-13-11 at 08:19 PM.

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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I don't really respect your superbiased source, just so know it. You can just drop the source and say whatever you think, because your source has just as much credibility as any forum user.
    You are invited to provide evidence to refute any fact stated in the study, if you can.

    If everyone was economists professors in macroeconomics, then maybe it wouldn't be misleading. But it is certainally misleading to say 1% own 31% of the wealth, when that is normal in every single country on Earth.
    Proof with link please.

    I mean, half of the population won't really have savings. Then there is a group of superrich who save up most of their income. That is good, because we need people to invest in the US.
    Show me where they are investing in US jobs? Last time I looked, unemployment was around 9%.

    What really matters is income. Most people earn income, and most income in the US is earned by wages, salaries, interests, bonusus, etc. Income inequality gives us a much better picture of inequaity. I think you are just using wealth inequality, because you want to create a shock effect.
    Wealth is what determines power, not income. The shock is already reaching people, that is why they are protesting! And evidently, why you are afraid of their reaction to it - quick change the conversation away from who owns most of the wealth in this country, lets talk about income that can be hidden instead?
    Last edited by Catawba; 10-13-11 at 08:35 PM.
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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are invited to provide evidence to refute any fact stated in the study, if you can.
    No, I'm just stating your source is superbiased, and has no more credibility than your own posts, hence you don't need to link to your silly source. ok?


    Proof with link please.
    I already have. I shown you wealth inequality in Sweden, which is about the same as United States. Sweden got one of the lowest income inequalities in the world.

    Show me where they are investing in US jobs?
    If they are not investing in the US, even better. That means you will get income from abroad to the US. It is good to have rich people residing in your county. You will not become richer by forcing them to leave.

    Wealth is what determines power, not income. The shock is already reaching people, that is why they are protesting! And evidently, why you are afraid of their reaction to it - quick change the conversation away from who owns most of the wealth in this country, lets talk about income that can be hidden instead?
    I'm not afraid of some dumb protestors with no goals. I'm a little bit afraid of dumb arrogant people in general, because I don't want to see US getting destroyed. I already responded to your hidden income argument. Stating that is not a major factor for income inequality. Wealth can be hidden as well, btw.

    I asked you, will inequality be reduced with a forced savings scheme. Can you please respond this time?

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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    No, I'm just stating your source is superbiased, and has no more credibility than your own posts, hence you don't need to link to your silly source. ok?
    I see, so you can't refute any of the facts.

    If they are not investing in the US, even better. That means you will get income from abroad to the US. It is good to have rich people residing in your county. You will not become richer by forcing them to leave. I'm not afraid of some dumb protestors with no goals. I'm a little bit afraid of dumb arrogant people in general, because I don't want to see US getting destroyed. I already responded to your hidden income argument. Stating that is not a major factor for income inequality. Wealth can be hidden as well, btw.
    Thanks for your opinion.

    Davos WEF 2011: Wealth inequality is the "most serious challenge for the world"

    "Wealth inequality is the most serious challenge facing the world in the years ahead, senior business figures heard at the World Economic Forum in Davos today.

    The gap between the rich and the poor within both developed and developing nations needs to shrink to build a more sustainable economy that avoids the damage caused by asset bubbles.

    “The increase in inequality is the most serious challenge for the world,” Min Zhu, a special adviser at the International Monetary Fund and a former deputy governor of the People’s Bank of China, told delegates at the Davos gathering. “I don’t think the world is paying enough attention.”

    His comments echoed an earlier warning from Sir Martin Sorrell, chief executive of media giant WPP, that “inequality, the concentration of wealth is a serious issue” and that marginal tax rates may need to rise for the best-off in society.

    Nouriel Roubini, professor of economics at New York University, also warned that inequality “exacerbates political instability”. "

    Davos WEF 2011: Wealth inequality is the "most serious challenge for the world" - Telegraph

    I asked you, will inequality be reduced with a forced savings scheme. Can you please respond this time?
    What are you talking about? Who is calling for a "forced savings scheme?"
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #320
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    Re: Does the GOP need to fear the 99% Movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so what? winnners win and too many losers are content to whine and demand the government do something rather than getting off their asses and try to achieve
    I do not know where you have been but people have been trying to take your advice and achieve for a long while now. But with jobs leaving the USA in big numbers, it leaves an entire group of people without a place in our economy.

    You ask so what? That has been explained to you time and time again in thread after thread. In a representative democracy, you cannot have a sustainable and healthy society should this growing gap between rich and all others continue. It is not a prescription for a healthy nation for our children and grandchildren to inherit.

    Speaking or myself, I want the future America to be a better place for my grandchildren. And that does not mean they eat caviar where millions of others eat dog food.
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