View Poll Results: What weapons should be legal for civilians to own?

Voters
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  • No firearms at all

    2 5.13%
  • Non-automatic rifles and shotguns

    27 69.23%
  • handguns

    33 84.62%
  • fully automatic weapons

    26 66.67%
  • military-grade explosives (hand grenades, mines, etc.)

    7 17.95%
  • Any man-portable weapon in use by the military

    8 20.51%
  • Military vehicles and vehicle-mounted weapons (tanks, jets, etc.)

    5 12.82%
  • No restrictions on civilian weapon ownership at all (up to and including nuclear)

    3 7.69%
  • Other (please explain)

    3 7.69%
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Thread: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

  1. #11
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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    All those countries could get them today. Even terrorists can get them if they really wanted them. Making something illegal doesn't stop criminals from getting it.
    Well, I'm pretty sure that the amount of effort made 1.) keeping criminals from getting something and 2.) punishing them for having something has a direct impact on how many criminals get whatever it is that they're trying to get. And, the first step in the process is making it illegal. Then, effort has to be spent shutting down supply lines and distribution lines, etc.

    If criminals get things that are "illegal" it's often because the term "illegal" doesn't necessarily mean "actively enforced with required resources".
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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Well they do really want them... and they haven't got them. (Not to say they MIGHT not eventually get them anyway).
    Good luck in your efforts.

    You're a little slow off the mark aren't you?
    lol, you mad?

  3. #13
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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    lol, you mad?

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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I think the leaders of Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India, China, Russia, France, North Korea, probably a few others would be interested in purchasing them.
    Why would the leaders of Pakistan, India, China, Russia, France, and North Korea want nuclear weapons? They already have them.
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  5. #15
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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    I believe that the 2nd Amendment potentially applies to all small arms which meet the following criteria:

    1. Suitable for Infantry Militia use. Specifically, can be carried and operated by one person; of a general type in common use by the US Infantry soldier; does not qualify as a Weapon of Mass Destruction.
    ...OR...
    2. Any weapon primarily useful for self-defense, hunting, sport, or other lawful purposes.

    Weapon of Mass Destruction: a weapon that cannot be used for individual self-defense against another individual, because of its inherent tendency to affect large numbers of people within an area of effect in an uncontrolled fashion; chiefly toxic, biological, radiological or nuclear in nature.

    Weapons that would definitely be protected (for individual use) under the 2A by this definition: knives, swords, sticks, pistols, shotguns, rifles, selective-fire rifles/shotguns/pistols/subguns capable of firing short controlled bursts.

    Weapons that might, debateably, be protected under the 2A by this definition: full-auto infantry light machineguns, certain infantry-borne anti-tank or anti-aircraft missile systems... perhaps grenades, grenade-launchers, that sort of thing.

    One could reasonably add the caveat to #1 that says "must be capable of damaging only a single target when used by a skillful operator". That would exclude explosives, and perhaps full-auto-only LMGs.

    In other words, I think blades, pistols, shotguns and rifles are covered without question. Selective-fire weapons capable of burst fire, probably yes. Heavier stuff is debateable... I wouldn't necessarily object to some more stringent background checks and storage requirements and permits for those.

    Well gosh, come to think of it that's not much different from how things are in many or most States already.... you can buy handguns rifles and shotguns with just a quick NICS background check, and you can buy a .50 machine gun if you have a Class III license (which comes with some fairly stringent checks and storage requirements, etc).

    The main sticking point seems to be selective-fire rifles.... M-16s, AK47s, M4s, and so forth that are capable of auto or burst fire. Given that those are standard-issue for American Infantry soldiers, considered a small-arm and personal weapon, capable of targeting a single target when used correctly, not a WMD, also used by Police, etc.... I see no reason to restrict ownership to any great degree.

    As a matter of strict principle, I think the Fed mandate for NICS checks may violate the 2A.... but on the side of pragmatism I really don't object to it. It's quick, the intrusiveness and infringement is brief and not overly cumbersome, and maybe it even helps a little to keep felons and nutters from legally buying guns, forcing them to turn to the black market.... well yeah when all is said and done it doesn't really keep anybody from illegally getting a gun, but it makes the hoplophobes feel a little safer, so whatever.
    Last edited by Goshin; 10-08-11 at 11:26 AM.

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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    lightsabers.

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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Why would the leaders of Pakistan, India, China, Russia, France, and North Korea want nuclear weapons? They already have them.
    I'm talking about US nuclear weapons, which frankly are better made in terms of long term reliability, storage, size, and power. North Korean nukes for example are too large to fit on their missiles, and so far their tests have been "ify" because they can't get the thing to detonate properly. Access to US nuclear weapon technology would solve those problems for them.

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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    All those countries could get them today. Even terrorists can get them if they really wanted them. Making something illegal doesn't stop criminals from getting it.
    Using that logic, why make anything illegal? Serious question, if the US can't even stop criminals from stealing nuclear weapons hell what laws can we enforce? Might as well throw our bets on the good of humanity.

    Also, no those countries cannot just get them today, neither could any terrorist group, precisely because of the security which surrounds them. I'm going to assume you meant "today" to mean "very quickly" because there's no way in hell you meant that literally, as in its only the wishes of the leaders of those countries or different terrorist groups that's stopping these weapons from ending up in their hands. Secondly, no countries or terrorist groups could get at them even quickly or at all, what possible reason do you have to support that kind of conclusion besides your belief that laws are impossible to enforce.

  9. #19
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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    I know it is on the poll, but by gosh why are we even talking about nukes?? Nukes have nothing to do with the 2A by any stretch of the imagination.

    Guns, yes. Swords and knives, okay. Grenades and mortars, we could debate that maybe. Nukes?? Are you effin' kidding me?


    Can we bring the conversation back to something half-ass within the bounds of reason?
    Last edited by Goshin; 10-08-11 at 11:54 AM.

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  10. #20
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    Re: What is protected under the 2nd amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I feel like we've had this discussion and only Agent Ferris advocated for private ownership of nukes.
    Not even I go that far. Frankly, I'm not entirely convinced that national governments should be allowed to own nukes.

    On the other hand, if one man can carry it and fire it directly without killing himself in the process, I think any man should be allowed to own it.

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