View Poll Results: A sustainable free market has no regulation.

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  • Agree, no regulation

    36 39.56%
  • Disagree, requires regulation.

    33 36.26%
  • Cheese.

    10 10.99%
  • What? I wasn't ready for the picture!!!!

    12 13.19%
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Thread: Regulation & The Free Market

  1. #41
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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The goal is merely to decide on individual violations of individuals to protect everyones rights in the process. If you allow the courts or regulations to just punish people that aren't involved that doesn't serve to protect rights. It should be out to treats people as people, and business as business. Everyone deserves rights in the process.
    I disagree again. Because businesses have much more power than an individual, they can cause much more harm with simple decisions than your or I can, thus they need some blunting.

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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Regarding courts handling it, that's absurd. I don't want to sue AFTER I get cancer from a known carcinogen being hidden away in my shower gel. Certain things are priceless, a law suit can't give you back your child, your health, your life, etc. Get a clue please. Legal should be a last resort. That's when all other negotations and avenues have failed. Thankfully, because it's extraordinarily inefficient to boot (court).
    This argument is the same argument people use to ban all sorts of things that may or not harm people. I don't agree.

  3. #43
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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I disagree again. Because businesses have much more power than an individual, they can cause much more harm with simple decisions than your or I can, thus they need some blunting.
    Again, conversely causing harm to a business, causes harm to far more people down the economic chain.
    I can assure you if one person gets fired wrongly, the impact to others is trivial.
    If you shut down an entire company, the impact is far more widespread an damaging...for example.

    You can offer more financial support and expertise to the little guy than to the big guy, that's fine. But you can't lose sight that both must be treated fairly..for the greater good

  4. #44
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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    This argument is the same argument people use to ban all sorts of things that may or not harm people. I don't agree.
    So you would prefer to get cancer THEN sue, rather than have at least some firewall in place to limit carcinogens in your food, water, products. Good luck with that.

  5. #45
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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    This problem is not a laissez-faire problem but actually a problem caused by the reverse. Monopolies are created by protections that make competition close to impossible in many fields. Without them this problem doesn't exist.
    Not necessarily. Suppose that there are ten large widget factories in a laissez-faire economy. If one of them gains an edge over its competitors for whatever reason (say, it produces superior widgets at a cheaper price at some key point in time), what is to stop them from buying out the weakest players and consolidating its hold over the market? What is to stop them from then focusing on destroying the competition, rather than continuing to produce superior widgets at a cheaper price? If some upstart widget factory comes along, the incumbent can just set up shop next door and temporarily sell his products at a loss until the insurgent waves the white flag of surrender. And if he already has a dominating position in the widget supply chain, he can tell his distributors that they aren't allowed to work with the insurgent company. If there's no government to deem this as an unfair trade practice, he certainly would.
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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    So you would prefer to get cancer THEN sue, rather than have at least some firewall in place to limit carcinogens in your food, water, products. Good luck with that.
    Who would knowingly continue the same process after they got sued for a few times with the punishments growing everytime it happens? Would you?

  7. #47
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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Who would knowingly continue the same process after they got sued for a few times with the punishments growing everytime it happens? Would you?
    It depends on a cost benefit analysis. Would a car company fix a brake issue if potential lawsuit costs are less than the cost of a recall?

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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    This thread is sorta useless...

    Laws = Civilized Society
    No Laws = Anarchy

    'nuff said...

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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    It depends on a cost benefit analysis. Would a car company fix a brake issue if potential lawsuit costs are less than the cost of a recall?
    Why wouldn't that be taken into account on the very first time it happened?

    And really for Mach's example the person really has to be out to kill people to continue to do it.

  10. #50
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    Re: Regulation & The Free Market

    As a former smoker, I always think of tobacco companies when I think about regulation. Their story shows the failings of both sides of the regulatory environment:

    First, tobacco companies boosted their products addictive qualities -- going as far as to pump extra nicotine in -- and then covered up or just plain-old lied about the relationship to cancer. The market incentivized this behavior -- as long as the companies could avoid the consequences of the harm their products were causing, they stood to gain more profit. Without the power of government to investigate, cast light on and punish these practices, they might be going on today.

    But then there's the flip side: regulation has driven up the cost of a pack of cigarettes to the point where many smokers -- addicted to these cancer-causing products -- are spending way more than they can afford to maintain the habit. Meanwhile, several states sued over the cost of treating sick smokers and won a massive settlement. I live in Ohio -- guess how much of that settlement money goes to help sick smokers or to quitting programs? None, because the state sold the settlement annuity (a la J.G. Wentworth) and used the proceeds to plug a budget gap. Meanwhile, smokers who haven't yet found the strength to quit (it's not easy -- I've done it) pay more and get sicker. Now we want to put pictures of lung tumors on cigarette packs. To me, that's pointless and a waste of resources.

    So smokers get the "trickle-down" from both sides.

    The lesson is that regulation is absolutely necessary but must be applied with restraint and wisdom to be effective. But that's very difficult to achieve in our system of government.
    Last edited by GhostlyJoe; 10-07-11 at 03:49 PM.

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