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Death Penalty: Right or Wrong?

Death Penalty: Yea or Nay?

  • Total voters
    34
Centrist77 said:
since many others have been addressed i wanted to talk about this one
life in prison SOMETIMES stops future crimes it most certainly does not gurantee it, a lot of time inmates commit crimes IN PRISION drugs, weapons, assult and more murder, some times guards etc.

also what "life in prison" are you talking about. Sometimes life can be 25years with chance of parole in 7 or 13 etc. and sometimes these people commit crimes again when they get out.

also murder rates are the lowest they have been in 40 years :shrug: numbers wise, percentage wise it maybe some of the lowest ever, id have to check
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yep percentage wise its the lowest it has ever been since 1960, all the furtherback the first sight i went to had

i look at the crime rates and i want to expand DP to cover some violent crimes and some rape.
 
Centrist77 said:
thats on opinion and others have the opinion it is about safety

not saying either is right or wrong just saying
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The death penalty doesn't increase the safety of the public anymore than a life sentence w/p parole.
 
theplaydrive said:
The death penalty doesn't increase the safety of the public anymore than a life sentence w/p parole.
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Exactly. Plus it's cheaper, and it avoids the failure mode of State sponsored killing of innocent people. It seems very illogical to support the death penalty in the modern era.
 
theplaydrive said:
The death penalty doesn't increase the safety of the public anymore than a life sentence w/p parole.
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i guess not if you disregard the people that work in the prison has not public or people that escape or the nut jobs that have followers on the outside or are crime/gang/drug cartel/ terrorist bosses that give orders to people on the outside.

if you disregard all that stuff i might agree.
 
Ikari said:
Exactly. Plus it's cheaper, and it avoids the failure mode of State sponsored killing of innocent people. It seems very illogical to support the death penalty in the modern era.
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I will leave it at this, Ikari.... If some member of my family were murdered or raped, the person who did it better HOPE the government executes him/her because if I get my hands on them they'll BEG to be killed long before I let them die.
 
Ikari said:
Exactly. Plus it's cheaper, and it avoids the failure mode of State sponsored killing of innocent people. It seems very illogical to support the death penalty in the modern era.
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if that was true i would agree but its not
 
Centrist77 said:
i guess not if you disregard the people that work in the prison has not public or people that escape or the nut jobs that have followers on the outside or are crime/gang/drug cartel/ terrorist bosses that give orders to people on the outside.

if you disregard all that stuff i might agree.
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Escape from maximum security prisons (where people who would commit crimes worthy of a death penalty conviction would often be put) is exceedingly rare and getting rarer. Government officials do not make up the aggregated "public".
 
Centrist77 said:
if that was true i would agree but its not
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The death penalty is cheaper than housing someone for life? The death penalty does not and has not consumed innocent life? I'd like to see a bit of proof for that.
 
Tigger said:
I will leave it at this, Ikari.... If some member of my family were murdered or raped, the person who did it better HOPE the government executes him/her because if I get my hands on them they'll BEG to be killed long before I let them die.
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I do not believe vigilantism is compatible with justice either.
 
Ikari said:
Escape from maximum security prisons (where people who would commit crimes worthy of a death penalty conviction would often be put) is exceedingly rare and getting rarer. Government officials do not make up the aggregated "public".
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didnt say it was or wasnt rare all im saying is that it does happen and there for it makes the statement untrue.

and i think its sad to write off prison guards as nonpublic. Yes technically they are not the public but their lives have value. What about visiting parole board members, or nurses, doctors, therapist, religion clergy, teachers etc are they also nonpublic?

regardless the statement is false even if its .0001% different :shrug:
 
Ikari said:
I do not believe vigilantism is compatible with justice either.
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Then I'm glad I'm not a member of your family, because if I was and I was murdered and you didn't do something about it, I'd haunt you for the rest of your life.
 
Ikari said:
The death penalty is cheaper than housing someone for life? The death penalty does not and has not consumed innocent life? I'd like to see a bit of proof for that.
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who said it either of those werent true?


I was disagreeing with your agreement that "The death penalty doesn't increase the safety of the public anymore than a life sentence w/p parole." which is false. But on your note, all convictions are sometimes wrong should we scrap law all together? and its more expensive because the system made it that way, fix the system
 
Centrist77 said:
i guess not if you disregard the people that work in the prison has not public or people that escape or the nut jobs that have followers on the outside or are crime/gang/drug cartel/ terrorist bosses that give orders to people on the outside.

if you disregard all that stuff i might agree.
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1. How many people with a life sentence kill others in prison?
2. How many people with a life sentence escape and aren't caught immediately?
3. If someone is taking orders by someone with a life sentence, it's likely that they would be taking orders from some else if the person were killed - that's how gangs, cartels, etc. work.
 
theplaydrive said:
1. How many people with a life sentence kill others in prison?
2. How many people with a life sentence escape and aren't caught immediately?
3. If someone is taking orders by someone with a life sentence, it's likely that they would be taking orders from some else if the person were killed - that's how gangs, cartels, etc. work.
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1.) doesnt matter how many, it has and does happen therefore your statement is untrue
2.) doesnt matter once they escape the present a danger to safety that could have been avoided
3.) maybe but the fact remains people have been killed because of orders given from prisoners so again your statment is false in many way

listen im not saying this stuff happens every 30 seconds all im saying is you made a statement that claims an absolute and therefore it is wrong :shrug:
 
Jryan said:
Life in prison also guarantees no future crimes.
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Issues with a few things but wanted to touch specifically in this.

It does not guarantee it. It just makes it far far more likely.

1) Escape is possible (Though HIGHLY unlikely)
2) Crimes against other inmates...rape, assult, murder, etc...is absolutely possible and are still a crime
3) They can still work with those on the outside to conspire to commit crimes

I'm not saying that's some kind of justification FOR the death penalty, but its incorrect to suggest life in prison guarantees no future crimes by the person
 
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Centrist77 said:
1.) doesnt matter how many, it has and does happen therefore your statement is untrue
2.) doesnt matter once they escape the present a danger to safety that could have been avoided
3.) maybe but the fact remains people have been killed because of orders given from prisoners so again your statment is false in many way
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1. Not really. You base your argument on - if we keep them alive, then they'll kill or hurt more people. Where's your evidence? People who get life without parole have a lot to lose by starting violence and people who get the death penalty don't, so it could be argued that the death penalty increases violence since they're going to die anyway and life decreases it since they don't want to spend their entire life in prison without any privileges.

On the surface, your argument sounds good, but it doesn't really hold up since it can be turned around.

2. If they don't harm anyone, then they aren't a proven threat to safety.

3. It's not "maybe". A gang leader dying in no way stops the gang from issuing orders, so your point is irrelevant.

listen im not saying this stuff happens every 30 seconds all im saying is you made a statement that claims an absolute and therefore it is wrong :shrug:
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That's weird because at first you said that I had written an opinion and that you had no opinion on whether or not it was right or wrong. Now I'm wrong. Interesting
 
Centrist77 said:
didnt say it was or wasnt rare all im saying is that it does happen and there for it makes the statement untrue.
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It does happen, but not on an aggregated level that would excuse the death penalty. The use of the death penalty innately consumes innocent life. The focus should be on the minimization of that and as such, in our modern world the use of the death penalty has become archaic.

Centrist77 said:
and i think its sad to write off prison guards as nonpublic. Yes technically they are not the public but their lives have value. What about visiting parole board members, or nurses, doctors, therapist, religion clergy, teachers etc are they also nonpublic?
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Government workers do not make up the aggregated public. That is a statement of fact.

regardless the statement is false even if its .0001% different :shrug:[/QUOTE]
 
Tigger said:
Then I'm glad I'm not a member of your family, because if I was and I was murdered and you didn't do something about it, I'd haunt you for the rest of your life.
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Well I'd just call in Scooby Doo to find out that it's not really you haunting me, but old man Jenkins who was upset that my dog pooed on his lawn.
 
Centrist77 said:
who said it either of those werent true?


I was disagreeing with your agreement that "The death penalty doesn't increase the safety of the public anymore than a life sentence w/p parole." which is false. But on your note, all convictions are sometimes wrong should we scrap law all together? and its more expensive because the system made it that way, fix the system
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It's true on all statistical levels though. Life sentence without parole does not significantly increase the dangers to the aggregated public.
 
theplaydrive said:
1. Not really. You base your argument on - if we keep them alive, then they'll kill or hurt more people. Where's your evidence? People who get life without parole have a lot to lose by starting violence and people who get the death penalty don't, so it could be argued that the death penalty increases violence since they're going to die anyway and life decreases it since they don't want to spend their entire life in prison without any privileges.
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1.) listen dont be dishonest people in prison commit crimes against others in prison whether it be inmates or faculty thats just a fact your later argument is true some might do that, again that would be a problem with the system not DP. ANd also they could do it LONGER if they are alive.

and no it cant be turned around because my augment is against your STILL false statement.

On the surface, your argument sounds good, but it doesn't really hold up since it can be turned around.

theplaydrive said:
2. If they don't harm anyone, then they aren't a proven threat to safety.
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more dishonesty even if they dont its not equal, dead = no chance of escaping and harming people, alive = possible
again your statement is false because you misspoke in absolutes

theplaydrive said:
3. It's not "maybe". A gang leader dying in no way stops the gang from issuing orders, so your point is irrelevant.
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and yet even a 3rd point of dishonesty. actually it could or it could let the same guy live on and give orders for even longer. Or maybe while this guy is alive he decides to go on an all out war the whole time he is alive?

like i said your statement is factually wrong on many levels and thats just reality, to deny that is just silly


theplaydrive said:
That's weird because at first you said that I had written an opinion and that you had no opinion on whether or not it was right or wrong. Now I'm wrong. Interesting
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and yet MORE dishonesty or just a bold face lie, pick one

what i actually said is that your OPINION on DP being about revenge and arrogance is just an opinion vs people's opinion thinkin its about safety.

THOSE are both opinions that i will neither call right nor wrong

What i am currently calling wrong NOW because it factually is, is your statement you made posts LATER "The death penalty doesn't increase the safety of the public anymore than a life sentence w/p parole."

thats what I am calling wrong now, nice try though :)
 
Ikari said:
It does happen, but not on an aggregated level that would excuse the death penalty. The use of the death penalty innately consumes innocent life. The focus should be on the minimization of that and as such, in our modern world the use of the death penalty has become archaic.
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this is your opinion and you are welcome to it. the focus I made is that his statement was wrong :shrug:



Ikari said:
Government workers do not make up the aggregated public. That is a statement of fact.
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ok:shrug:
 
Ikari said:
It's true on all statistical levels though. Life sentence without parole does not significantly increase the dangers to the aggregated public.
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oh now its "significantly" based on what and whos opinions? lol
either way his statement was false that fact doesnt change, he spoke in an absolute and thats what makes it wrong.
 
Centrist77 said:
oh now its "significantly" based on what and whos opinions? lol
either way his statement was false that fact doesnt change, he spoke in an absolute and thats what makes it wrong.
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No, I think he was speaking statistically. In which case, it's true. Once a prisoner is behind bars, he offers no relative threat to the aggregated public.
 
Centrist77 said:
1.) listen dont be dishonest people in prison commit crimes against others in prison
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I never said they didn't.

and no it cant be turned around because my augment is against your STILL false statement.
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Nope, the death penalty may actually increase crime since death row inmates have nothing to lose.

more dishonesty even if they dont its not equal, dead = no chance of escaping and harming people, alive = possible
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It's not dishonest to want proof for a threat to safety.

and yet even a 3rd point of dishonesty. actually it could or it could let the same guy live on and give orders for even longer. Or maybe while this guy is alive he decides to go on an all out war the whole time he is alive?
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Gangs, cartels, etc. have new leaders when old ones die. Your point is irrelevant. Perhaps the leaders that die are less violent than the leaders that take over thereby making the death penalty increase violence. Show me proof of your theory.

like i said your statement is factually wrong on many levels and thats just reality, to deny that is just silly
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You've offered opinions and nothing more.

and yet MORE dishonesty or just a bold face lie, pick one
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It's neither, just a misunderstanding. I misread it. :shrug: But leave it to you to always assume the worst.
 
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Ikari said:
No, I think he was speaking statistically. In which case, it's true. Once a prisoner is behind bars, he offers no relative threat to the aggregated public.
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well since he didn't mention stats or opinions or say "aggregated" or any other QUALIFIERS to make his statements at least "debatable" currently his statement is still and just flat out wrong :shrug:

that wont change lol he could now go back and say he mispoke or meant something else but what he wrote is in fact wrong.
 
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