View Poll Results: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

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  • Yes

    26 31.71%
  • No

    52 63.41%
  • I don't know

    4 4.88%
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Thread: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    No, as long as it can be proven, without a doubt that the person is guilty of a heinous crime, it is a legitimate form of justice.
    That can never be proven without a doubt. Even the standard "beyond a reasonable doubt" is not "without any doubt." We know that innocent people have been sentenced to die and then exonerated. A jailed person can be released, but I don't know anyone who can bring people back from the dead.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Congratz, you used to perfect example. If you are using the definition of the word murder, then neither executions nor abortions are murder, since both are legal. In both cased it is emotional rhetoric.
    For the most part, I don't disagree with this. I don't claim that abortion is murder, however, I have used the term as a way to try to explain how I view abortion and why I oppose it. Usually, it's in response to the usual "if you don't like abortion, don't have one" which is exactly akin to me saying, "If you don't like the death penalty, don't execute anyone."
    Last edited by X Factor; 09-27-11 at 03:22 AM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Recent high profile executions have resulted in a resurgence of debate about the death penalty. One thing I'm noticing is that, several times now, I have seen a post by someone who has told me in the past that it's wrong to call abortion murder (because abortion is legal) yet calling an execution murder. I do concede that abortion is not legally defined as murder, but then, wouldn't the same be true of the death penalty?

    So, what do you think? Is carrying out the death penalty murder? Explain why or why not.
    Seeing how murder is nothing more than a legal technicality I would have to say that the death penalty is not murder. For example if it became legal to kill people of a certain religion,ethnicity, sexual preference or race then killing that person would not be murder while if you killed someone who was not on that okay to kill list it would be murder.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-27-11 at 03:40 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  4. #34
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Criminologists' Views on Deterrence and the Death Penalty

    "Eighty-eight percent of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide, according to a new study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology and authored by Professor Michael Radelet, Chair of the Department of Sociology at the University of Colorado-Boulder, and Traci Lacock, also at Boulder.

    Similarly, 87% of the expert criminologists believe that abolition of the death penalty would not have any significant effect on murder rates. In addition, 75% of the respondents agree that “debates about the death penalty distract Congress and state legislatures from focusing on real solutions to crime problems.”

    The survey relied on questionnaires completed by the most pre-eminent criminologists in the country, including Fellows in the American Society of Criminology; winners of the American Society of Criminology’s prestigious Southerland Award; and recent presidents of the American Society of Criminology. Respondents were not asked for their personal opinion about the death penalty, but instead to answer on the basis of their understandings of the empirical research.
    Facts about Deterrence and the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
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  5. #35
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    For the most part, I don't disagree with this. I don't claim that abortion is murder, however, I have used the term as a way to try to explain how I view abortion and why I oppose it. Usually, it's in response to the usual "if you don't like abortion, don't have one" which is exactly akin to me saying, "If you don't like the death penalty, don't execute anyone."
    Well...no. If you do not like abortion, you have the option to not have one. If you do not like the death penalty, you have to change the law(assuming that state does have the death penalty) or accept that executions will happen. If you use murder to describe abortion at all, you are engaging in emotional rhetoric.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That choice is naive. Who would pick death? No one would.
    I would, if I knew I had no chance of ever getting out of prison. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why would that remove the appeals process?
    Um, because if the person chooses the death sentence, they probably won't try to appeal it to get it changed. Duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Anywhere you are shot you don't die right away. Even if you are shot in the head you brain lives for a bit after the fact.
    Have you shot anything recently? Or ever? I have a Mosin Nagant, which fires 7.62x54 rounds. If you get hit in the head by one of those, your brain will nothing but a pink splatter on the wall behind you. I think you're getting confused with having your head chopped off.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Murder? I don't know. Is justifiable homicide a form of murder? If the victim had killed the prep during the commission of the crime, would it have been ruled 'justifiable homicide'? If so, why can't society give justice to that victim?

    I have no problem with the death penalty being applied when it has been proven that guilty party committed a heinous crime beyond any doubt (not just the reasonable doubt criteria that is needed to convict someone of a crime).
    Last edited by Frolicking Dinosaurs; 09-27-11 at 08:05 AM.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Murder? I don't know. Is justifiable homicide a form of murder? If the victim had killed the prep during the commission of the crime, would it have been ruled 'justifiable homicide'? If so, why can't society give justice to that victim?

    I have no problem with the death penalty being applied when it has been proven that guilty party committed a heinous crime beyond any doubt (not just the reasonable doubt criteria that is needed to convict someone of a crime).


    There ya go bingo..you hit a point I was going to post...let me elaborate. A man enters a store with a gun to rob the store...threatens the owner give me your money while brandishing the gun....the owner grabs his gun and shoots the robber dead...is that murder ? most likely not in the eyes of the law and most people would cheer the store owner for having the testes to do it....
    I still submit that I dislike the death penalty but there are some humans that are unfortunately not worth salvaging...there may be some good in everyone but in some the bad totally savages any good..

  9. #39
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    There ya go bingo..you hit a point I was going to post...let me elaborate. A man enters a store with a gun to rob the store...threatens the owner give me your money while brandishing the gun....the owner grabs his gun and shoots the robber dead...is that murder ? most likely not in the eyes of the law and most people would cheer the store owner for having the testes to do it....
    I still submit that I dislike the death penalty but there are some humans that are unfortunately not worth salvaging...there may be some good in everyone but in some the bad totally savages any good..
    Nobody can actually threaten anyone locked inside a jail cell. The two examples are not the same. The store owner was acting to protect his own life. If you can show me where the criminal can actually threaten a life locked in a jail cell I'll reconsider.

    Yes, murders happen in prison but I can't recall someone who has recieved the death penalty ever killing anyone once locked up. Maybe a rare example cuold be found but it would be rare.

  10. #40
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Nobody can actually threaten anyone locked inside a jail cell. The two examples are not the same. The store owner was acting to protect his own life. If you can show me where the criminal can actually threaten a life locked in a jail cell I'll reconsider.

    Yes, murders happen in prison but I can't recall someone who has recieved the death penalty ever killing anyone once locked up. Maybe a rare example cuold be found but it would be rare.
    There are murders in prisons.especially state prisons

    Officer John V. Mills, California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, California

    Corrections Officer Donna A. Payant, New York State Department of Correctional Services, New York

    Correctional Officer Killed in the Line of Duty at Charlotte Correctional Institution

    Panhandle Corrections Officer Dies In The Line Of Duty : NorthEscambia.com

    Press Release: Correctional Officer Murdered at Tomoka Correctional Institution

    Theres hundreds of murders in prison...this is not counting murdered convicts....prison murders are notoriously under reported...corrections officials despise any notoriety around prison murders and are loathe to report them...they keep it as toned down as possible....severe injuries are an hourly occurence in maximum security prisons that arent total lockdown facilities which most are not.
    Last edited by lpast; 09-27-11 at 10:11 AM.

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