View Poll Results: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

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  • Yes

    26 31.71%
  • No

    52 63.41%
  • I don't know

    4 4.88%
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Thread: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Well...no. If you do not like abortion, you have the option to not have one. If you do not like the death penalty, you have to change the law(assuming that state does have the death penalty) or accept that executions will happen.
    I'm gonna change what you said just a bit.

    If you do not like the death penalty, you have the option to not execute anyone. If you do not like abortion, you have to change the law(assuming that state does have the abortion - which all do, thanks to the Supreme Court) or accept that abortions will happen.

    See? If I want to see an end to legal abortion on demand, I have work to change the law.

    If you use murder to describe abortion at all, you are engaging in emotional rhetoric.
    I'm sure I've done that. Abortion is an emotional subject. What I'm saying, though, is somebody telling me my only option, if I oppose abortion is to not have one (while just happily accepting that others will) is the same thing, to me, as saying, "If you oppose murder, then your only remedy is not to murder anyone (while just happily accepting that others will)."

  2. #102
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Its not murder, no more than abortion is murder.

    It may be immoral killing depending on ones moral views, or it could be an unjust killing based on the circumstances of the individuals innocence, but its not "murder".

  3. #103
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Well...no. If you do not like abortion, you have the option to not have one. If you do not like the death penalty, you have to change the law(assuming that state does have the death penalty) or accept that executions will happen. If you use murder to describe abortion at all, you are engaging in emotional rhetoric.
    That's not exactly right.

    If you do not like abortions and feel its unjust killings, then you want them to stop entirely, and thus need to change the law. This is similar to not liking executions and feeling its an unjust killing, and thus having to change the law to stop them entirely.

    In both cases you could try and say the person should just not do it themselves. Don't become a state executioner (or part of the law enforcement establishment) if you don't want to execute people, don't have abortions if you don't want abortions. However, that doesn't cut to the heart of peoples issues which is a broader, societal allowance rather than a personal one. In both cases, to truly "stop" it in the way the people suggest they want it stopped it would require changes of the law.

  4. #104
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    Well you would be right if the person had murdered and gotten out of jail again.
    He's right, period - dead people do not commit crimes.

  5. #105
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    Well you would be right if the person had murdered and gotten out of jail again. Most of these people are life time criminals and I"m not talking about the one time solo person. Most of these guys are in involved in gangs, live in poverty, and can't afford a proper attorney. Your 100% is guaranteed wrong, look up how jail is a revolving door. 80% of people who are released from prison will return, EIGHTY PERCENT. Then again you can't increase punishments because there is the 20% who are not returning, they did their time and are sorry for what they have done. I have to say though honestly, I'm surprised it isn't a 100% prison return rate.
    I think you're making my argument for me. The majority of people in prison will get out only to commit more crimes. A murderer who is executed though, never will hurt anyone else again. That's the specific deterrence I was referring too.

  6. #106
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    "Thou shalt not murder". Item 6 Decalogue. Published Moses.
    Yup and "kill" is not "murder".

  7. #107
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Its not murder, no more than abortion is murder.
    This fallacy has already been addressed. A ZEF has no developed brain stem. It's not even conscious. You're comparing an organism with a handful of cells to a fully grown adult. They grew up, were a member of a family, a community. People care about them. The death penalty inflicts the same injustice on a whole other community as the executed did to their victim. It's blood for blood.

    Whoever presses the button to inject lethal drugs into a person is a murderer, and whoever pays them to do it or assists them is an accomplice.

    Pretty much the only people who aren't accomplices are the ones who protest it, because they refuse to be part of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It may be immoral killing depending on ones moral views, or it could be an unjust killing based on the circumstances of the individuals innocence, but its not "murder".
    This is an obtuse argument. Even if you personally believe that a fetus has personhood and is conscious, you know damn well that this fact is controversial and there are no objective answers. A fully grown adult being executed at the behest of the state is a declared citizen of the United States, and a declared person, something that a fetus is not.

    You can try and blend the two all you want in order to make the death penalty seem more subjective, but it's nothing but a fallacy, and for very clear reasons. Not to mention, most abortions aren't paid for by the State, unlike executions which my tax dollars fund.

  8. #108
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    UK condemns Iran hangings as barbaric

    "The UK condemns the death penalty in all circumstances."


    In Europe, a chorus of outrage over execution of Troy Davis

    "Many commentators denounced U.S. justice as brutal and flawed."


    Birds of a feather........................
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #109
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Whoever presses the button to inject lethal drugs into a person is a murderer
    That's a wonderful opinion to have. Its also a 100% wrong opinion. Unless you're speaking about in a location that pressing the button to inject the lethal drug is against the law.

    Sorry Temporal, words have meanings.

  10. #110
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    Re: Is the Death Penalty Murder?

    I cant believe this thread is still going on.

    Its not murder, since murder has legality to it, its impossible

    can the minority here explain to me how the death penalty is murder? whats the logic?
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