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The Founding Fathers

Do you think the founding father's beliefs apply today?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 75.0%
  • No

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Total voters
    24

Jryan

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Do you think that their political beliefs hold merit today? Do you think that they have something to contribute today? Do you still hold their "genius" views that they had 220 years ago?
 
Do you think that their political beliefs hold merit today? Do you think that they have something to contribute today? Do you still hold their "genius" views that they had 220 years ago?

All political beliefs have merit, but I do wonder how they would apply their views in the face of modern problems. I suspect their conclusions would be modified.
 
AKA Political beliefs, how they set up our government?

well, they didn't want the People to elect Senators, so they were wrong about that.

they also allowed slavery to exist, so wrong again.

they didn't give women the right to vote, again they were wrong.
 
I agree with you, but I think the point I was trying to make, did they set us up for disaster, did they inadvertently make laws that don't apply today?
 
Absolutely they apply. If we agree that we are still operating under the same basic constitutional principles which they drafted, in 1787-89, then we have an OBLIGATION to seek out the original intent of the Founders. Otherwise we are simply applying these rules arbitrarily. The Courts/attorneys do it all the time when referencing precedent-setting cases. We are either a "nation of laws" or a "nation of men" and their oft-twisted and self-serving opinions. If we are indeed a "Nation of Laws" then we MUST seek out the origination of those laws and change them AS LAW PRESCRIBES when necessary and when the majority approves.
 
Some do. Some don't. I think the idea that we have to stick unfailing to what people wrote down before things like airplanes, the internet, and nuclear bombs had even been conceived of is pretty naive. At the same time, the underlying principles in the constitution are pretty solid for the most part. I think the best solution would be an entirely new constitution, based off the same principles, but designed for the modern world, and updated to take into account things we've learned over the past couple of centuries.
 
Some do, some don't. The question is far too broad to be answered.
 
such as?

...........

For example the first 10 amendments, ie, rite to bear arms, freedom of speech, our basic principles in society. Sorry for the slow reply, this thread took off while I was asleep.
 
If we lived in a backwater upstart nation of 4 million farmers and small merchants isolated from most of the world with an agrarian economy and a system which by law enslaved others and denied half the population their rights because of gender, then sure, their opinions would be very valuable.
 
For example the first 10 amendments, ie, rite to bear arms, freedom of speech, our basic principles in society. Sorry for the slow reply, this thread took off while I was asleep.

I think the bill of rights are just as applicable today; many of them are enshrined in constitutions everywhere. But I think some other things are outdated: powers given to the fed were not adapted for modern international politics, methods of taxation, failure to extend federal protection of rights into the states, slavery and the destruction of the native Americans, discrimination of pretty much everyone but white property owners .......

But, luckily, most of these have already been resolved, and we are free to adapt our government to what we need. They were careful in building a government that could be changed to meet the needs of a growing nation.

So, while the specific laws and policies that were crafted then are, for the most part, no longer relevant, many of the principles and ideas behind them are still valid. We've just found a better way to apply them that fits our world today
 
The individual beliefs of a founding father or those they agreed to as a group and put into the constitution and the bill of rights?
 
I not only think they apply today but will as long as there are people who can read comprehend and believe in the freedoms we have based on the form of Government they set for us.

I would add that we always refer the Founding Fathers but don't kid yourself there were some very strong women behind those men.

We don't read about the role women played but anyone with half a brain knows that from Adam and Eve on down women have had an influence on what was going on, they were more involved than just behind the scenes.

Women in the American Revolution
 
Do you think that their political beliefs hold merit today? Do you think that they have something to contribute today? Do you still hold their "genius" views that they had 220 years ago?

There's always changes which occur with time and things the founders couldn't have envisioned at the time. Yet their philosophy is sound and I think still has much merit to it today. Particularly in their warnings for the normal evolution of government and the necessity of the People to keep it in check. I think that in terms of practical government, a Republic is the best form and their wisdom in creating one should enamor us to learn about their theories and philosophies which led them away from monarchy/oligarchy and towards an actual Republic.

Something being old doesn't mean that it's not true or has no worth.
 
Yea sure they do.
They set a basis on government.
But they also have been twisted.
Also we moved on. Times change....
 
which beliefs? i think their idea of a representative republic was pretty good; ditto on free speech and gun ownership. making the constitution amendable was a good plan. their views on tariffs were a little more realistic than our own free trade / running a deficit with everyone policies.

i can come up with a list of a bunch of things that they were wrong on, but hind sight is 20 / 20.

do i think we should go to a bare bones government that lets multinational corporations consolidate all of the wealth and power in an unregulated laissez faire fantasy? no. and neither would they had they envisioned such a global model developing, in my opinion.
 
There's always changes which occur with time and things the founders couldn't have envisioned at the time. Yet their philosophy is sound and I think still has much merit to it today. Particularly in their warnings for the normal evolution of government and the necessity of the People to keep it in check. I think that in terms of practical government, a Republic is the best form and their wisdom in creating one should enamor us to learn about their theories and philosophies which led them away from monarchy/oligarchy and towards an actual Republic.

Something being old doesn't mean that it's not true or has no worth.

(Only quoted one as to not have a million posts) To anyone who thinks that the founding fathers apply today, could we be over analyzing what they said? Could we be giving them more credit than credit is deserved? Could we be misinterpreting what they left us? There are so many questions that come to mind on this subject.
 
hmmm.. well, we still have the Constitution as the law of the land... so yeah, i would say their ideas still have merit.

did they make mistakes ( by our standards today)?.. of course... slavery and women's voting rights are examples of mistakes.
have we made mistakes by changing their ideas?... of course... allowing Senators to be elected by the people and Presidential term limits are examples of our mistakes.
(those are my examples.. everybody has their own)
 
I disagree with blameing anyone for slavery. Remember, we are merely products of our society, so, if society finds it morally acceptable to have a slave, we will have slaves.
 
I think the bill of rights are just as applicable today; many of them are enshrined in constitutions everywhere. But I think some other things are outdated: powers given to the fed were not adapted for modern international politics, methods of taxation, failure to extend federal protection of rights into the states, slavery and the destruction of the native Americans, discrimination of pretty much everyone but white property owners .......

But, luckily, most of these have already been resolved, and we are free to adapt our government to what we need. They were careful in building a government that could be changed to meet the needs of a growing nation.

So, while the specific laws and policies that were crafted then are, for the most part, no longer relevant, many of the principles and ideas behind them are still valid. We've just found a better way to apply them that fits our world today
I'm an oddity in the modern in one regard... I can't stand the BOR existing in the Constitution... for exactly the reasons some founding fathers argued against it being included.
 
I disagree with blameing anyone for slavery. Remember, we are merely products of our society, so, if society finds it morally acceptable to have a slave, we will have slaves.

i'm not blaming anyone, i'm just saying it was a mistake.
 
i'm not blaming anyone, i'm just saying it was a mistake.

I don't even see it as a mistake... Not saying I agree with slavery, but slavery was widely accepted. Not to get to far off topic.
 
I'm an oddity in the modern in one regard... I can't stand the BOR existing in the Constitution... for exactly the reasons some founding fathers argued against it being included.

I don't necessarily agree, but you (and they) certainly have a point. Setting rights to paper has certainly caused it share of problems, but I think overall it was a good idea.

It's just so damn hard to expand the list.
 
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