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  • The TSA can do whateverthey want - including strip searches and body cavaty searches

    3 9.68%
  • The TSA should have limits on how invasive a search can be

    15 48.39%
  • The TSA is ineffective and should not exist at all

    11 35.48%
  • The TSA is necessary, but currently ineffective

    7 22.58%
  • The TSA is necessary and effective

    5 16.13%
  • The TSA should not exist (for reason(s) other than being ineffective)

    8 25.81%
  • The enhanced patdowns are excessive and need to be dropped.

    13 41.94%
  • The enhanced patdowns are excessive and need to be modified.

    6 19.35%
  • The enhanced patdowns are necessary to assure safety.

    3 9.68%
  • Less invasive and equally thorough methods are available.

    12 38.71%
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Thread: Opinions about the TSA and practices

  1. #71
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    ..OK, so you're arguing that people are implicitly consenting to a search simply by buying the ticket and entering the security line in order to get on their plane, correct? If that's the case, would you be willing to apply that same principle to other spheres of life? For example: "The police won't randomly frisk you, if you stay in your house and don't walk down a public sidewalk." Or: "The police won't listen to your telephone calls without a warrant, if you simply don't use the phone." Or: "The police won't search your car without a warrant or probable cause, as long as you don't drive."..
    an airplane is a machine that can be used as a weapon that can kill tens of thousands of people.

    that said, I think its only prudent that we make sure passengers are not bringing bombs or other weapons onboard an airplane.

    I'm sorry, but 9-11 changed some things. And as a NYer who breathed in yellow crappy air for 2 months and stared into the eyes of thousands of 9-11 family members last Sunday, I'd rather have people deal with the displeasure of being searched for weapons than another horrible terrorist attack.

    but that's just me.

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    How do we deter underwear bombers?
    Ban underwear.
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Look, when you go to many clubs, you get a pat-down which can include having a big & ugly bouncer run his hand up your thigh and get a little feel of your junk. Such is life. They consider the safety of their customers to be more important than your pride..or lack of it.

    We live in a dangerous world and while security searches should be reasonable, they are very needed.

    Maybe when the whole world gives up guns and everyone loves the USA, we can go back to pre-1941 security levels.

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    an airplane is a machine that can be used as a weapon that can kill tens of thousands of people.

    that said, I think its only prudent that we make sure passengers are not bringing bombs or other weapons onboard an airplane.

    I'm sorry, but 9-11 changed some things. And as a NYer who breathed in yellow crappy air for 2 months and stared into the eyes of thousands of 9-11 family members last Sunday, I'd rather have people deal with the displeasure of being searched for weapons than another horrible terrorist attack.

    but that's just me.
    The lives of a lot people are more important than an "embarrassing" pat-down. I think it is kind of selfish when people say they would rather risk the lives of thousands of people all cause you do want to be patted down.

    I think earlier Thundercat said that he did not classify the pat-down as molestation. Which someone claimed it was. I am sure molestation is a sexual act. I am sure the TSA guy is not getting a boner from patting you down. If you notice he is pitching a tee-pee, politely ask for another TSA person to pat you down.

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well the Constitution prohibits "unreasonable search and seizure." Can we agree that this is, at the very least, search and seizure, and that the dispute is over whether this is "unreasonable"? If so, I would submit that what distinguishes an unreasonable search and seizure from a reasonable search and seizure, is due process. In order for the police to search someone, they need to obtain either a warrant, probable cause, or consent. Are we still in agreement?

    So if you like, forget all the stuff about whether *you* would get arrested if you touched someone like this in another circumstance. Instead, ask yourself this: Would it be lawful for a *police officer* to search someone like this in any other circumstance, without a warrant, probable cause, or consent? I can't think of any such circumstance. The police can't rummage through your bags or randomly frisk you on the street. So what makes the situation at an airport different?
    I agree with your question the problem is that has NOTHING to do with FLYING and TSA policies

    the answer is EASY
    to fly you agree to the searches, they are a packaged deal, everybody knows to fly you must get searched so there is CONSENT.

    Now we can debate on whether this is right, emotionally or PC wise etc etc BUT that doesnt make it a violation of the constitution. TO violate the constitution we must talk about the legality of the matter and in dealing with legality there is consent and there is no force so the constitution is no violated.
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by tcmartin10 View Post
    The lives of a lot people are more important than an "embarrassing" pat-down. I think it is kind of selfish when people say they would rather risk the lives of thousands of people all cause you do want to be patted down.

    I think earlier Thundercat said that he did not classify the pat-down as molestation. Which someone claimed it was. I am sure molestation is a sexual act. I am sure the TSA guy is not getting a boner from patting you down. If you notice he is pitching a tee-pee, politely ask for another TSA person to pat you down.
    men should pat down men...women should pat down women.

    any TSA agent who abuses his authority or position should be fired and charged with sexual assault.

    that said, we need these security regulations to prevent another 9-11. its that simple.

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    a private service that is under Federal authority & regulation.

    inter-state travel...inter-state commerce. get it?

    don't want to be searched? don't fly a plane.

    To you it means Congress has totalitarian power to do whatever it wants. To people with sense, it doesn't.
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Not 100% accurate. Once you step in line they're going to search you even if you change your mind. But more importantly:



    OK, so you're arguing that people are implicitly consenting to a search simply by buying the ticket and entering the security line in order to get on their plane, correct? If that's the case, would you be willing to apply that same principle to other spheres of life? For example: "The police won't randomly frisk you, if you stay in your house and don't walk down a public sidewalk." Or: "The police won't listen to your telephone calls without a warrant, if you simply don't use the phone." Or: "The police won't search your car without a warrant or probable cause, as long as you don't drive."

    If you are not OK with those things, what is qualitatively different about those situations versus the airport security line?
    Appeal to emotion, pure dramatic show and dishonesty.
    What logic makes agreeing to pay and partake in a said service on a private plane in which you know there will be searches anywhere near the same as walking down the street or driving your own car.

    they arent even CLOSE to the same.
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    an airplane is a machine that can be used as a weapon that can kill tens of thousands of people.
    OK, so the number of people that could potentially be victimized is relevant to whether or not it's a violation of civil liberties? Fair enough, but then consider this: Someone could be carrying a nuclear weapon in their truck as they drive down the highway. Someone could be carrying a vial of smallpox as they walk down the street. Since these things could also kill tens of thousands of people, and since one could make an equally strong argument that people implicitly consent to searches by using public sidewalks and highways, do you think it's appropriate for police to search them without a warrant, probable cause, or consent?

    If not, why?

    (I'd also like to point out that the idea of using a plane to kill tens of thousands of people was obsolete by 10 AM on September 11, 2001. Although terrorists may some day succeed again in attacking an airplane, I highly doubt they will ever again be a threat to anyone not on the plane.)

    that said, I think its only prudent that we make sure passengers are not bringing bombs or other weapons onboard an airplane.
    Meh. I ride the metro every day without even going through a metal detector, and I don't even think twice about it. I wouldn't mind doing the same thing for planes. But with that said, I don't really mind metal detectors at the airports. Anything beyond that is invasive and a waste of time.

    I'm sorry, but 9-11 changed some things. And as a NYer who breathed in yellow crappy air for 2 months and stared into the eyes of thousands of 9-11 family members last Sunday, I'd rather have people deal with the displeasure of being searched for weapons than another horrible terrorist attack.
    The TSA's security procedures have taken more money and more hours of human life from us than the 9/11 hijackers did. By several orders of magnitude.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-20-11 at 11:00 PM.
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    TSA is an overreaction to 9/11. If I was a terrorist and wanted to terrorize the country, it wouldn't be an airplane I tried targeting anymore. In 2001, yes, perhaps. Back when you could break into the pilot's cabin and overpower a pilot and take over the plane. Or hold the passengers hostage and make the pilot do something. Today, yeah, you could potentially blow up an airplane or something but that's not nearly as impressive as flying airplanes into buildings. One airplane of people is pitiful for a terrorist.

    Instead, I think sporting events is the way to go right now. Of course, I don't think we need full body pat downs to go to a baseball game anymore than I think it helps with air travel. But if we continue the trend, you'll be going through security for sporting events, concerts, public transportation, etc... I hate to use the slippery slope argument, but realistically another terrorist action is going to happen and if it's a subway or a stadium or a shopping mall or whatever, if we overreact on that we'll end up with TSA screening there too. I don't want to go there.

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