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31. You may not vote on this poll
  • The TSA can do whateverthey want - including strip searches and body cavaty searches

    3 9.68%
  • The TSA should have limits on how invasive a search can be

    15 48.39%
  • The TSA is ineffective and should not exist at all

    11 35.48%
  • The TSA is necessary, but currently ineffective

    7 22.58%
  • The TSA is necessary and effective

    5 16.13%
  • The TSA should not exist (for reason(s) other than being ineffective)

    8 25.81%
  • The enhanced patdowns are excessive and need to be dropped.

    13 41.94%
  • The enhanced patdowns are excessive and need to be modified.

    6 19.35%
  • The enhanced patdowns are necessary to assure safety.

    3 9.68%
  • Less invasive and equally thorough methods are available.

    12 38.71%
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Thread: Opinions about the TSA and practices

  1. #31
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by tcmartin10 View Post
    Depending how you interpret the court case involving Japanese internment camps during WWII. The federal government can legally do this. I am assuming since the federal government can suspend habeas corpus during war, they can give you a pat-down during elevated terrorist threats.
    But what's "elevated threats" Haven't we been at the same color ever since this happened? Habeas Corpus can be suspended during war, but that requires a declaration of war to officially be at war. Another thing we should probably re-institute since it seemed to help limit the wars we got into.
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    ... and why would i be expected to carry ID for them to look at. there is no such obligation on my part
    One of my roommates felt that way until the day he got stopped by a cop for doing something stupid in public and because he didn't have any ID on him, instead of being told to smarten up and sent on his way, he got to spend four and a half hours at the police station until someone who could ID him was able to show up (because we all have JOBS, unlike him).

    So far as I'm concerned, I have a major issue with anyone who doesn't carry ID on them. If nothing else it's utterly STUPID.

  3. #33
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    One of my roommates felt that way until the day he got stopped by a cop for doing something stupid in public and because he didn't have any ID on him, instead of being told to smarten up and sent on his way, he got to spend four and a half hours at the police station until someone who could ID him was able to show up (because we all have JOBS, unlike him).

    So far as I'm concerned, I have a major issue with anyone who doesn't carry ID on them. If nothing else it's utterly STUPID.
    and yours is a fearful position
    you have - out of fear - allowed the authorities to compel you to have on your person a document that you are not obligated to possess



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  4. #34
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and yours is a fearful position
    you have - out of fear - allowed the authorities to compel you to have on your person a document that you are not obligated to possess

    man up
    I am also REQUIRED by Massachusetts State Law to have my CCW on my person at all times.

    I have certain medical conditions that may place me in a state where I am unable to render any aid to myself. It is in my own best interest to ensure that someone can quickly and easily identify who I am. Likewise, as a law-abiding citizen, I have nothing to fear from my personage being known. Hell, more than half of the town cops in the area already know who I am because I have been involved in shooting or running or other activities with them.

  5. #35
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    YES. Those people are spending their time in public. The government has a job to protect the general public. I have no problem being stopped and asked for my ID at any time by a LEO. I have no problem submitting myself and my vehicle to a search. I have nothing to hide.
    Even an invasive pat down and virtual strip search without a search warrant? If you say yet to that then at least you are consistent.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  6. #36
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by tcmartin10 View Post
    I bet you would be mad if you missed your airplane cause they had to get a warrant from the local judge.
    The 4th amendment is not about convenience. Its to keep the government and government entities from searching people and their property without a warrant.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    TSA

    Too Stupid for Arby's

  8. #38
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I am also REQUIRED by Massachusetts State Law to have my CCW on my person at all times.
    something altogether different
    you have sought a specific exemption and you have to document that it was authorized
    and i am guessing that were you not carrying you would not also be expected to then possess your CCW documentation

    I have certain medical conditions that may place me in a state where I am unable to render any aid to myself. It is in my own best interest to ensure that someone can quickly and easily identify who I am.
    and let's examine this circumstance
    you carry your identification for your own purposes ... your own benefit
    that is something quite different than expecting any citizen to be compelled to furnish ID to a leo only because they want to be able to know who you are

    Likewise, as a law-abiding citizen, I have nothing to fear from my personage being known. Hell, more than half of the town cops in the area already know who I am because I have been involved in shooting or running or other activities with them.
    but your willingness to give up your rights so easily works against the public's protection of the individual's rights
    stand for something or fall for anything
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  9. #39
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Even an invasive pat down and virtual strip search without a search warrant? If you say yet to that then at least you are consistent.
    Based on ANY form/level of probably cause, definitely.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    something altogether different
    you have sought a specific exemption and you have to document that it was authorized
    and i am guessing that were you not carrying you would not also be expected to then possess your CCW documentation
    I carry OC Spray on my keychain. In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts one must have an FID (or higher) license to purchase, possess, or use any form of self-defense spray. Literally walking to my car to get the cell phone I left in there in the driveway without my license in my pocket is a FELONY in this state.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and let's examine this circumstance
    you carry your identification for your own purposes ... your own benefit
    that is something quite different than expecting any citizen to be compelled to furnish ID to a leo only because they want to be able to know who you are
    Yes it is for my benefit. It also provides me with a lot of good will should I become involved with a LEO and I both have and am willing to provide positive ID (even multiple forms of it) immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but your willingness to give up your rights so easily works against the public's protection of the individual's rights. stand for something or fall for anything
    In my mind the vast majority of Americans have many more Rights than they truly deserve, bubba.

  10. #40
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on this. Flying is a PRIVILEGE, not a Right. If you want to fly, you get to play by the FAA and TSA's rules. If you don't want to play by those rules, don't fly. You are electing to engage in a privileged act (flying); not walking around in public; so I would suggest that the 4th Amendement really doesn't apply here. Just as I can REQUIRE you to be searched to enter my place of residence or other private property, the TSA should be able to search you (by whatever means are necessary) before allowing you onto their property (the airlines); so long as they tell you what you will be subjected to before you make the decision to fly.
    That's a load of crap.

    You might be somewhere close to having a valid point, if it was the airlines themselves coming up with these requirements, and implementing them of their own accord. If one airline chose to subject its passengers to such outrageous treatment, many passengers would choose to take their business to a different airline, that treated them in a more respectful and appropriate manner.

    But even so, certain laws still apply. I don't think, for example, that any place of business legally could get away with having a requirement that you allow their bouncer to punch you in the face as a condition of doing business with them. And by the same token, I doubt if an airline, under any reasonable application of existing laws, could get away with compelling passengers to submit to sexual assault as a condition of doing business with them.


    There is no logic that you can use to classify airline travel as a “privilege” that exempts one from the normal protections of the law, that cannot equally be applied to nearly every other normal activity outside of one's home—shopping, seeing a movie, eating at a restaurant, or even just walking down the street.
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    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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