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  • The TSA can do whateverthey want - including strip searches and body cavaty searches

    3 9.68%
  • The TSA should have limits on how invasive a search can be

    15 48.39%
  • The TSA is ineffective and should not exist at all

    11 35.48%
  • The TSA is necessary, but currently ineffective

    7 22.58%
  • The TSA is necessary and effective

    5 16.13%
  • The TSA should not exist (for reason(s) other than being ineffective)

    8 25.81%
  • The enhanced patdowns are excessive and need to be dropped.

    13 41.94%
  • The enhanced patdowns are excessive and need to be modified.

    6 19.35%
  • The enhanced patdowns are necessary to assure safety.

    3 9.68%
  • Less invasive and equally thorough methods are available.

    12 38.71%
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Thread: Opinions about the TSA and practices

  1. #11
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    How do we deter underwear bombers?
    ANd if terrorists started sticking explosives up their ass then we should all cavity searches without warrants at airports?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I completely agree.

    I'll go a bit further. These enhanced pat-downs and virtual strip searches ARE illegal.

    The Fourth Amendment is clear enough on setting limits on the authority of government to conduct any invasive searches of any kind. The searches being conducted by the TSA do not come anywhere even close to satisfying the Fourth Amendment, therefore, there is no authority to conduct these searches.
    You are correct. Laws that violate the constitution are illegal period.


    I believe that the Fourth Nuremberg Principle should certainly apply here. “I was just following orders” should not be accepted as an excuse.

    TSA agents who conduct invasive strip searches and pat-downs, without proper probable cause, ought to be arrested and tried on appropriate charges of assault, sexual molestation, and violation of the victims' civil rights.
    I agree with that. No one forced them to do those things. thats why I find the line "but they are just doing their job" to be a load of crap. They were not conscripted, they are not slaves. they are not some guy in their 50s or 60s who was doing the same job for 40 years about ready to retire and collect a pension.

    As an American, I find it deeply shameful that my countrymen have become so complacent and cowardly that such outrageous conduct by agents of our government toward our people is tolerated. If the same spirit that prevailed at the time this nation was founded still prevailed today, this would not have gone nearly so far before it would have become routine for TSA perverts to be tarred and feathered, or even beaten to death by angry mobs.
    Baby steps are how people become complacent.

    The great men who founded this country would not have even thought of tolerating this kind of crap from their government. Shame on us for tolerating it.
    The great men who founded our country knew that hte government shouldn't be trusted.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on this. Flying is a PRIVILEGE, not a Right. If you want to fly, you get to play by the FAA and TSA's rules. If you don't want to play by those rules, don't fly. You are electing to engage in a privileged act (flying); not walking around in public; so I would suggest that the 4th Amendement really doesn't apply here. Just as I can REQUIRE you to be searched to enter my place of residence or other private property, the TSA should be able to search you (by whatever means are necessary) before allowing you onto their property (the airlines); so long as they tell you what you will be subjected to before you make the decision to fly.

    Honestly, I don't think the TSA does anywhere near enough to secure the airways. I've laid out my plan of strip searches, straitjackets, hoods, and 5-point restraints in other threads before. Either that or start letting me carry my own personal protection devices onto planes again.

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    no one subjects you to those searches
    you subject yourself
    you have chosen to fly thru a public airport and understand that to do so requires such scrutiny
    want to avoid the search, don't use the public airport

    that said, the OP's point is taken; no doubt there are those TSA pervs who abuse their authority for personal satisfaction. there should be a system established such that objections to the manner of the pat down could be posted immediately after the search where the TSA official could be photographically recognized. in short order, the dept of homeland security would be able to ferret out those who abuse their TSA authority
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs
    I get patted down every single time I board a plane or ship thanks to metal in my hip and leg. I've had respectful pat downs and several that had me wanting to file sexual assault charges.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock
    I'll go a bit further. These enhanced pat-downs and virtual strip searches ARE illegal.

    The Fourth Amendment is clear enough on setting limits on the authority of government to conduct any invasive searches of any kind. The searches being conducted by the TSA do not come anywhere even close to satisfying the Fourth Amendment, therefore, there is no authority to conduct these searches.

    Lacking such authority, various laws concerning assault apply. Touching someone without his consent is assault. Touching someone's intimate areas without consent is sexual assault. This conduct is illegal.
    Res ipsa loquitur. The simple fact that you bought a plane ticket and are willing to travel on a public plane disavows any violation. The Fourth Amendment prevents cops and what-not from breaking into your house and looking for/taking anything you do not want them to look for or take. Now if a cop asks to come inside your home and you say yes, at which point he finds an unregistered handgun or a pound of weed, you can take it to court, but it will be thrown out immediately. You can refuse the patdown and not be "sexually violated" or "assaulted" if you so choose. The result is you probably being barred from the plane. The choice still exists, and if you want to get on the plane, you give assumed, if not expressed, consent to reasonable measures. Also, the word "reasonable" fluctuates.

    My biggest complaint is the time. If the TSA dude (hopefully chick) wants to pat me, look, grab my junk - I couldn't give a damn. Hurry up and get your jolly on, then let me get on my plane.

  6. #16
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Carry-ons are personal effects and therefore one of those things the forth amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizure without a warrant.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



    So a police office should be able to walk up to you on the street and give you an invasive patdown and strip search of you and your property?

    If you want police to be able to do that then you need to petition the government to go through the amendment process to flush the 4th amendment down the drain.



    You realize that more terrorist attacks have happened on trains,cars and buses than on airplanes.So buy your logic if you do not like to be virtually stripped searched then you should not step foot outside your home.
    You can claim you have the 4th amendment on your side but I will always object to banning the TSA from searching carry ons or any other form of luggage.

    I'm curious what you feel would be an otherwise effective way of detecting a bomb or guns in someone's bag.



    And a police officer walking up to you on the street to give you a pat down without cause would be inappropriate. However a Police officer checking everyone at the front door to a 9/11 memorial service is not inappropriate.

    No one is forcing you to fly. If you don't like the pat downs, don't fly. I on the other hand will go on living my life
    "There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." —John Adams

  7. #17
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on this. Flying is a PRIVILEGE, not a Right.

    So is driving a car,riding a bus,train or cab and even walking.


    If you want to fly, you get to play by the FAA and TSA's rules.
    If you don't want to play by those rules, don't fly. You are electing to engage in a privileged act (flying); not walking around in public;
    The same thing can apply to driving, walking and riding, If you want to drive,ride or walk then you must abide by the government's rules.
    so I would suggest that the 4th Amendement really doesn't apply here.
    The 4th amendment does apply.There are no "Only applies inside your home and property" anywhere on the 4th amendment.


    Just as I can REQUIRE you to be searched to enter my place of residence or other private property, the TSA should be able to search you (by whatever means are necessary) before allowing you onto their property (the airlines); so long as they tell you what you will be subjected to before you make the decision to fly.
    TSA is not a private entity it is government entity. The constitution exist to protect against the government not private property owners.

    Honestly, I don't think the TSA does anywhere near enough to secure the airways. I've laid out my plan of strip searches, straitjackets, hoods, and 5-point restraints in other threads before. Either that or start letting me carry my own personal protection devices onto planes again.
    Would you tolerate the police doing this to people driving cars, riding cabs,trains and buses and people walking down the street?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Airlines are privately-owned businesses. If they wish to implement pat-downs as part of their security screening, its their right.

    Don't like it? Find an airline that doesn't do it.

    People talk like they have a Constitutional right to fly a plane. Well, ya don't.

    Ride a train if pat-downs and body scans bother you.

  9. #19
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So is driving a car,riding a bus,train or cab and even walking.




    The same thing can apply to driving, walking and riding, If you want to drive,ride or walk then you must abide by the government's rules.


    The 4th amendment does apply.There are no "Only applies inside your home and property" anywhere on the 4th amendment.




    TSA is not a private entity it is government entity. The constitution exist to protect against the government not private property owners.


    Would you tolerate the police doing this to people driving cars, riding cabs,trains and buses and people walking down the street?
    If you really think that we're on a slippery slope to where we have to be patted down in order to drive our cars, I have to question your sanity.
    "There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." —John Adams

  10. #20
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    Re: Opinions about the TSA and practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    You can claim you have the 4th amendment on your side but I will always object to banning the TSA from searching carry ons or any other form of luggage.

    I'm curious what you feel would be an otherwise effective way of detecting a bomb or guns in someone's bag.
    Carry-ons are personal property IE effects. Therefore the 4th amendment applies to those.

    And a police officer walking up to you on the street to give you a pat down without cause would be inappropriate. However a Police officer checking everyone at the front door to a 9/11 memorial service is not inappropriate.
    Is there an exemption in the 4th amendment that allows this? No there is not.

    No one is forcing you to fly.
    No one is forcing you to drive your own vehicle, no one is forcing you to ride a bus, cab or train and no one is forcing you to walk.


    If you don't like the pat downs, don't fly.
    And the same thing could be said about walking,driving or riding, If you do not like invasive pat downs and virtual strip searches then don't drive,don't walk and don't ride a cab,bus or train.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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