View Poll Results: How long will you blame Bush

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Less than one more year

    0 0%
  • Until this term is over

    0 0%
  • Forever.

    33 76.74%
  • I'm done blaming Bush.

    10 23.26%
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Thread: How long will you "blame Bush"?

  1. #181
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Catawba, I think you might need to check your numbers. Below is what I have:

    (Iraq War Resolution, 2002)

    House
    Republicans - 215 Y, 6 N
    Democrats - 82 Y, 126 N
    Totals - 297 Y, 133 N

    Senate
    Republicans - 48 Y, 1 N
    Democrats - 29 Y, 21 N
    Totals - 77 Y, 23 N

    Majority of House Dems voted no, but you still have 82 voting yes. Majority of Democratic Senators vote yes.

    = Shared responsibility

    (like my nice colors?)
    Nice colors David! However, if you add up the blue numbers that voted nay in both houses, and then add up the blue numbers that voted yea in both houses, you will see that my statement is correct - the majority of Congressional Democrats voted against AOF in Iraq.


    Edit: I just noticed I did carry the one incorrectly in my post above but it was still a majority of the Congressional Democrats that voted against the AOF. 147 nays to 111 yeas vs near unanimous votes by the GOP for AOF.
    Last edited by Catawba; 09-20-11 at 10:28 PM.
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  2. #182
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nice colors David! However, if you add up the blue numbers that voted nay in both houses, and then add up the blue numbers that voted yea in both houses, you will see that my statement is correct - the majority of Congressional Democrats voted against AOF in Iraq.


    Edit: I just noticed I did carry the one incorrectly in my post above but it was still a majority of the Congressional Democrats that voted against the AOF. 147 nays to 111 yeas vs near unanimous votes by the GOP for AOF.
    But! Without the yay votes of the Democrats, the Resolution would not have passed. Dems could have blocked it in the Senate... having control... but they did not.

    Just getting across a point here that it was not just one man commanding the country, pointing and starting war by himself. There were hundreds of Senators and Representatives that voted and approved for this too - many being Democrats.

    Not saying it was all or even mostly the fault of the Democrats, just saying they shared in the creation of this huge, wasteful, ill-advised, never-ending war with a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, directly or indirectly.

    And as for Sangha's comment...

    My analogy was about a dealer selling to adults, yours is a dealer selling to children; what's the point you're trying to get across here?
    Last edited by David D.; 09-20-11 at 11:22 PM.

  3. #183
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Democrats don't vote in lockstep like most GOPs do. The cooked intell Senate and House leaders was shown was pretty convincing - and no one believed at the time that US produced intell would ever be untrustworthy. That incident has forever done away with the notion that the US can always be trusted. Did GWB know the intell was bogus? We will never know for sure, but after it came out that he was talking about invading Iraq with advisers even before 9/11, I'm inclined to believe he did know.
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  4. #184
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    But! Without the yay votes of the Democrats, the Resolution would not have passed. Dems could have blocked it in the Senate... having control... but they did not.

    Just getting across a point here that it was not just one man commanding the country, pointing and starting war by himself. There were hundreds of Senators and Representatives that voted and approved for this too - many being Democrats.

    Not saying it was all or even mostly the fault of the Democrats, just saying they shared in the creation of this huge, wasteful, ill-advised, never-ending war with a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, directly or indirectly.

    And as for Sangha's comment...

    My analogy was about a dealer selling to adults, yours is a dealer selling to children; what's the point you're trying to get across here?
    You are missing my point David. I am not saying it was Bush alone that took us to war, and I don't argue your point that a large number of Democrats are conservative and went along with the President. That is one of my beefs with that party.

    However, you cannot deny that the majority of Congressional Democrats voted against the war vs a near unanimous majority of Congressional Republicans that voted for the war.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Democrats don't vote in lockstep like most GOPs do. The cooked intell Senate and House leaders was shown was pretty convincing - and no one believed at the time that US produced intell would ever be untrustworthy. That incident has forever done away with the notion that the US can always be trusted. Did GWB know the intell was bogus? We will never know for sure, but after it came out that he was talking about invading Iraq with advisers even before 9/11, I'm inclined to believe he did know.
    I agree it was some BS, and I think it's obvious too that the GOP served as the spearhead of this hairbrained scheme to spend as much taxpayer money as possible by attacking countries that had nothing to do with 9/11. So much for being fiscally responsible. What a crock.

    Saddest thing of all were the lives lost.

    But who cares about that when you can make $$$.
    Last edited by David D.; 09-20-11 at 11:34 PM.

  6. #186
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post

    But! Without the yay votes of the Democrats, the Resolution would not have passed. Dems could have blocked it in the Senate... having control... but they did not.

    Just getting across a point here that it was not just one man commanding the country, pointing and starting war by himself. There were hundreds of Senators and Representatives that voted and approved for this too - many being Democrats.

    Not saying it was all or even mostly the fault of the Democrats, just saying they shared in the creation of this huge, wasteful, ill-advised, never-ending war with a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, directly or indirectly.

    And as for Sangha's comment...

    My analogy was about a dealer selling to adults, yours is a dealer selling to children; what's the point you're trying to get across here?
    It wasn't exactly the way you portray it. While going to war was certainly a possibility by passing that resolution, discretion to do so was left entirely up to Bush. Bush, as Commander-in-Chief, was the decider. Congress was the enabler.


    SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

    (a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

    (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

    (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

    (b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--

    (1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either

    (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

    (2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

  7. #187
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are missing my point David. I am not saying it was Bush alone that took us to war, and I don't argue your point that a large number of Democrats are conservative and went along with the President. That is one of my beefs with that party.

    However, you cannot deny that the majority of Congressional Democrats voted against the war vs a near unanimous majority of Congressional Republicans that voted for the war.
    For sure, Catawba, for sure. Hopefully that's clear to most.

  8. #188
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    He was President for eight years.

    Most economists would say about 4 years to undo all that damage.
    I like cheese!

    How long will you "blame Bush"?-27619-clip-art-graphic-swiss-cheese-wedge-mascot-character-welcoming-open-arms-toon-jpg

  9. #189
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    For sure, Catawba, for sure. Hopefully that's clear to most.
    I wish that were the case.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #190
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    I never blamed him for anything.

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