View Poll Results: How long will you blame Bush

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  • Less than one more year

    0 0%
  • Until this term is over

    0 0%
  • Forever.

    33 76.74%
  • I'm done blaming Bush.

    10 23.26%
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Thread: How long will you "blame Bush"?

  1. #171
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    sure thing...

    then there's the matter of whether Bush lied, or whether he was just wrong.
    that question does not arise in regards to Clinton.. Clinton absolutely lied... under oath.

    on the long list of reasons to go after Iraq, only the question of WMD is in contention.... but it wasn't in contention back them, there was widespread, bipartisan, agreement on the issue... if Bush was lying, most of DC was right there spewing those lies before he ever came on scene.
    I'm more of the mind that they were all simply wrong about WMD's and none were lying.

    i've been through enough iraq war debates though... i don't think we need ot go through them again.

    You are wrong, world intelligence confirmed Iraq was of no threat, and we knew that we completely destroyed Iraq's military threat in the Persian Gulf war, and we knew that we did not let them rebuild that threat in the ten years of sanctions we enforced between that time and our invasion.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #172
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, deregulation and lax regulation were the cause of the recession, but recovering from the recession requires that the middle class has money to create the demand needed by industry to be productive, and to pay taxes to help reduce the deficit.
    so you are under the belief that making the rich poorer will make the poor/middle class richer?

    but you are semi-correct that we have a demand problem.... government can't help with that though, so I'm not sure waiting on them to ride in and save the day is the wisest choice.

    it wasn't lax regulation... it was regulatory capture.
    it was a matter of allowing insurance instruments (CDOs, CDSs) not to fall under insurance regulations.
    the regulations were on hand to combat what these ultra educated folks dreamed up...but as usual, people in positions of power ( both private an public) decided to redefine reality and ended up screwing a lot of people out of trillions of dollars.

  3. #173
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are wrong, world intelligence confirmed Iraq was of no threat, and we knew that we completely destroyed Iraq's military threat in the Persian Gulf war, and we knew that we did not let them rebuild that threat in the ten years of sanctions we enforced between that time and our invasion.
    if i'm wrong, the entire US government ( including prominent Democrats and the Clinton administration), from the gulf war until 9/11, was wrong.... and lying.

    lets see you castigate Clinton for his "lies" about Iraq.. which eventually led to war and death and destruction.
    i'll sit here and say that Clinton didn't lie about Iraq .. and neither did Bush.... both were wrong, however.

  4. #174
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post

    not a fan of perjury laws eh?... to each their own...<shrug>

    so what you are telling me is that is perfectly fine for a President to lie to the American people under oath or color of his office.


    no need to go any further... we won't agree on lying being a good thing.
    I think what is being lied about matters. For example, lying to cover up an extramarital affair doesn't hurt anyone and is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Hell, if the government prosecuted everyone who lied under oath about extramarital affairs, there'd be no room in jail for anyone who didn't go through a divorce.

    I do admit I will never understand why righties cry because Clinton beat the charges of perjury brought against him; while at the same time, they cheer for Scooter Libby having his sentenced commuted without ever spending a day in jail after he was he was actually convicted of perjury. And unlike Clinton who lied to cover up an extramarital affair, Libby lied in a case about a covert CIA agent being outted.

    While I don't understand that logic, I do chalk it up to what I experience all the time with the right; where they place their ideology over their country.

  5. #175
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post

    if i'm wrong, the entire US government ( including prominent Democrats and the Clinton administration), from the gulf war until 9/11, was wrong.... and lying.

    lets see you castigate Clinton for his "lies" about Iraq.. which eventually led to war and death and destruction.
    i'll sit here and say that Clinton didn't lie about Iraq .. and neither did Bush.... both were wrong, however.
    There is a difference you're not considering ...

    How many Americans died because Clinton launched Cruise missiles into Iraq ... how many Americans died because Bush launched a full-scale war against Iraq ...

  6. #176
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The majority of congressional Democrats voted against the war in Iraq. 247 voted nay, and 111 voted aye.
    Catawba, I think you might need to check your numbers. Below is what I have:

    (Iraq War Resolution, 2002)

    House
    Republicans - 215 Y, 6 N
    Democrats - 82 Y, 126 N
    Totals - 297 Y, 133 N

    Senate
    Republicans - 48 Y, 1 N
    Democrats - 29 Y, 21 N
    Totals - 77 Y, 23 N

    Majority of House Dems voted no, but you still have 82 voting yes. Majority of Democratic Senators vote yes.

    = Shared responsibility

    (like my nice colors?)
    Last edited by David D.; 09-20-11 at 09:41 PM.

  7. #177
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    How long will you "blame Bush"?

    I think the more appropriate question is: how long will you refuse to hold Bush responsible for anything?

  8. #178
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    so you are under the belief that making the rich poorer will make the poor/middle class richer?
    No, what I am suggesting is that if we eliminate the temporary tax breaks given to the richest, along with making cuts in wasteful spending to help reduce the deficit, which hurts us all.

    but you are semi-correct that we have a demand problem.... government can't help with that though, so I'm not sure waiting on them to ride in and save the day is the wisest choice.
    By providing jobs when the private market isn't, the government will be stimulating the economy since more people will have money to buy the things that US companies want to sell. Infrastructure jobs will also create a demand for building materials. etc, which will also help stimulate the economy.

    it wasn't lax regulation... it was regulatory capture.
    it was a matter of allowing insurance instruments (CDOs, CDSs) not to fall under insurance regulations.
    the regulations were on hand to combat what these ultra educated folks dreamed up...but as usual, people in positions of power ( both private an public) decided to redefine reality and ended up screwing a lot of people out of trillions of dollars.
    I see little difference except in semantics. I am aware that Bush appointed industry folks to head the agencies that were supposed to be regulating banking activities that had little interest in pursuing violations.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #179
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleshofthegods View Post
    He also put people using medical marijuana for debilitating disease in prison.
    blame FDR and his expansion of the commerce clause if you are mad you cannot do your doobie legally



  10. #180
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    Re: How long will you "blame Bush"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    if i'm wrong, the entire US government ( including prominent Democrats and the Clinton administration), from the gulf war until 9/11, was wrong.... and lying.
    I was with your right up to where you said "from the Gulf war until 9/11. Saddam was arguably a threat to his neighbors prior to the Gulf war as he invaded Kuwait. During the Gulf war, we destroyed that military threat and did not allow him to rebuild by enforcing the sanctions right up to our invasion.

    lets see you castigate Clinton for his "lies" about Iraq.. which eventually led to war and death and destruction.
    i'll sit here and say that Clinton didn't lie about Iraq .. and neither did Bush.... both were wrong, however.
    Clinton gets no pardon from me for his actions against Iraq, but at least he didn't take us to war with them under false pretenses.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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