View Poll Results: Should a dog owner be punished?

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  • Yes, with jail time.

    32 31.37%
  • Yes, with a fine

    16 15.69%
  • No

    54 52.94%
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Thread: Dog owner responsibility

  1. #81
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    And on a side note. If a pit is attacking and its important enough to intervene, GET ITS FRONT FEET OFF THE GROUND. It is the difference between a bite and death to animals being attacked. Its the shake that kills. Watch Cesar on Dog Whisperer if you don't believe me. He does this.
    That's true for any dog. I was attacked by a Husky once and getting it's feet off the ground was part of the reason I escaped relatively unscathed.

    Another thing to do when a dog has a hold of your arm (and it seems counter intuitive) is to actually push your arm deeper into the dog's mouth. It opens the jaws and can actually choke the dog.

  2. #82
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    That's true for any dog. I was attacked by a Husky once and getting it's feet off the ground was part of the reason I escaped relatively unscathed.

    Another thing to do when a dog has a hold of your arm (and it seems counter intuitive) is to actually push your arm deeper into the dog's mouth. It opens the jaws and can actually choke the dog.
    What you all mean by that? Do you pick up dog's the same way a child would if it was trying to dance with the dog, do you spread its legs apart or bring the feet together while lifting up?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  3. #83
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What you all mean by that? Do you pick up dog's the same way a child would if it was trying to dance with the dog, do you spread its legs apart or bring the feet together while lifting up?
    Most people will actually bend over when attacked by a dog (presumably because the weight of the dog will pull them that direction), allowing it to get all four feet on the ground.

    When I was grabbed on the arm by the husky, I shoved the arm deeper in it's mouth, used my other arm to grab behind it's head, and then lifted it off the ground by arching my back away from where it wanted me to go and by lifting it primarily with my other arm.

    Lifting it exposed it's belly, which received some sharp and savage knees and kicks.

  4. #84
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    That would be any and all dogs. It is kinda like saying well you know if you bring a human into this world that can do some messed up stuff and you are gonne be held accountable for whatever that little human spawn does because well humans can and do kill each other.
    This is a silly answer. Fun, but silly.

  5. #85
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    The reasoning? What are you talking about..? A little girl was ripped to pieces because someone wasn't responsible with their vicious dog. And now people actually blame the people who were attacked because they left a ****ing door open. It's preposterous. And people actually support that line of BS. What circumstances need to be made clear to you? It seems obvious to me that an owner of a dog is responsible for its actions. It's ridiculous that anyone has the nerve to argue otherwise.
    First of all, the first article gives little info on the attack itself.

    Second, the question was based on that situation but was given as a general question, not just the specific incident.

    In regards to the incident specifically, the dog should most definitely be put down, as it most likely was. There is little doubt now that the dog was too dangerous to be a pet, especially in a neighborhood with children. But it isn't because of the breed or the size of the dog but rather because of this incident. If there were other incidents before this one, not just comments on how aggressive/mean the neighbors think the dog was, but actual violent incidents in the past, then the owner should have taken more precautions to ensure the dog did not get loose.

    Another thing here would involve whether anyone aggravated the dog, especially people near the house where the child was, before the attack. This is a thing anyone wanting to blame the owner for in any pet attack should keep in mind. You can't say the owner should have kept better control over a dog if someone else is aggravating, hitting, or taunting the dog in ways that a reasonable person could assume might cause a dog to attack.

    I have had relatives who had their dog chained on their property, when a couple of neighbor kids went onto the property and were taunting and hitting the dog til the dog bit one of the boys. The dog got put down because of the incident although there is no doubt that he only attacked in defense.

    There is a lot of reasoning that goes into determining what happened. There is the reason behind why a particular dog attacked. Was the dog taught to attack people? Was someone trying to aggravate the dog to attack? If so, who? Then there are questions about what the owner did to prevent the dog from hurting anyone and whether the dog had a history of aggressive behavior. Did the dog escape from the property/owner before? How high was the fence in relation to the dog? What was the fence made of? Was the dog secured behind the fence? What was the dog secured with? Had the dog attacked anyone before? If so, was it provoked/unprovoked, on the person's property/in public/on someone else's property? Is there any evidence to suggest that the owner purposely trained the dog to attack people, especially people who would not normally be viewed as a threat, or small animals (I could see a child being mistaken for a small animal if the dog was trained to hunt more than just specific animals).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  6. #86
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Pitt bulls are not inherently vicious. Most of them are friendly and sweet and very easygoing towards humans.... unless they've been taught to be otherwise. There are rare exceptions though... I had a half-Pitt that was a one-family-dog, he loved me and loved my son, and wanted to eat the rest of the world. I have no idea why he was like that, it wasn't my doing. Most of them, though, are good dogs. They were deliberately bred for aggression towards other dogs, and NOT towards humans, normally.

    The real problem with Pitts is that a bad Pitt is like a cross between a wolf and a crocodile. They're very strong and have incredibly powerful jaws, and when they're stirred up they tend to attack with great determination. I was on the receiving end of a Pitt attack once, and I ended up having to kill the dog to stop him. I didn't want to, I love dogs, but he wouldn't stop trying to tear my throat out.

    To know whether the owner deserves jail time, I'd have to know a few things;
    1. Did he deliberately train the dog to be vicious?
    2. What precautions did he take to try to keep the dog contained?
    3. Were there any previous incidents where the dog had gotten loose and menaced or hurt someone?

    If the answers are Yes, Very Little, and Yes....then I'd say that is enough negligence that he needs to do some time.
    I don't buy the "it's the owner, not the dog" argument

    While PBs are very friendly with people, they do have a very strong "prey drive" (ie hunting instinct) When left alone, all sorts of movements and sounds can excite them. Squirrels running around, rustling leaves, in fact any sort of movement or sound or smells that remind them of the hunt. If they get excited enough, any dog can bite. For dogs, biting is a way to relieve stress. If a dog with a strong prey drive is left unattended outdoors, the sights, sounds and smells it encounters can excite its; prey drive to point beyond the dogs control. It gets to a point where the dog has to hunt.

    Prey drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Prey drive is the instinctive inclination of a carnivore to pursue and capture prey.

    In dog training, prey drive can be used as an advantage because dogs with strong prey drive are also willing to pursue moving objects such as toys, which can then be used to encourage certain kinds of behavior, such as that of greyhound racing or the speed required in dog agility. The prey drive can be an important component of pet dog training, obedience training and schutzhund as well. Games such as fetch and tug-of-war, can be an effective motivator and reward for learning.

    In all predators the prey drive follows an inevitable sequence: the search, the eye-stalk, the chase, the grab bite, and the kill bite. In wolves the prey drive is complete and balanced. In different breeds of dog certain of these five steps have been amplified or reduced by human-controlled selective breeding, for various purposes. The search aspect of the prey drive, for example, is very valuable in detection dogs such as bloodhounds and beagles. The eye-stalk is a strong component of the behaviors used by herding dogs, who find herding its own reward. The chase is seen most clearly in racing dogs, while the grab-bite and kill-bite are valuable in the training of terriers. In many breeds of dog, prey drive is so strong that the chance to satisfy the drive is its own reward, and extrinsic reinforcers are not required to compel the dog to perform the behaviour.
    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    According to one report, the dog first threatened relatives standing in the driveway, and when they panicked and ran inside, the dog chased after them.

    Pitbull owners stood back from attack on Ayen Chol, claim family | News.com.au

    According to another, the homeowner was walking someone to the door. "The tragedy unfolded when a cousin, who owns the house, was walking a family friend to the door and the dog confronted them.

    As they tried to run indoors, the pit bull attacked before setting upon the children who were watching television."

    Ayen Chol, 4, killed in pit bull cross attack at St Albans | Herald Sun

    I don't understand how people were walking to the door and trying to run back inside.
    WHen confronted with a viscious dog, moving away is one of the worst things one can do. It just excites the dog
    Last edited by sangha; 09-17-11 at 01:56 PM.
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  7. #87
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenoa View Post
    #16 and it took me 2 tries to find it.

    Different article with a little info from neighbors

    "Three of us were trying to revive the kid. We were trying to find a heart beat. There were a couple of beats initially but she was gone after that."
    He said the owner of the dog had raced to the victim's home and dragged the animal home, before returning to the scene.
    He said the dog's owner was "devastated" after the attack. The animal was later removed from the premises and was put down this afternoon.


    Other neighbours said they had often heard the pit bull cross barking in the street, but few had seen the animal.

    Anisah Mama, who lives next door to the house where the dog lives, said she had been scared in the past for her two children, aged nine and 13.
    She had not seen the dog in the three years her family had been living in the home, but said they often heard barking. "Actually this dog is quite aggressive," she said.

    "While the children play they hear the dog barking and they are scared sometimes. I said 'don't worry, he's inside'."
    PB's, like many other breeds, need a lot of exercise. If they don't get it, they develop problem behaviors. Excessive barking is one indication that a dog is not getting enough exercise.

    The more I read about this case, the more I think these dog owners should be in jail
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #88
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Due to original breeding purpose and subsequent inbreeding, PBs and dobermans are inherently unstable. No other breed has anywhere near the history of snapping (mentally) and attacking their owner and family. The ban on them in Miami is justified. Sure, a good owner can keep one and never have a problem, but most people are not ideal owners and it simply is not worth the risk given the average owner's training, education and ability.

    Side note: if a dog bites my arm I will destroy its eyes. It ain't gonna shake crap after both its eyes are turned into gel by my fingers.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 09-17-11 at 02:10 PM.

  9. #89
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Due to original breeding purpose and subsequent inbreeding, PBs and dobermans are inherently unstable. No other breed has anywhere near the history of snapping (mentally) and attacking their owner and family. The ban on them in Miami is justified. Sure, a good owner can keep one and never have a problem, but most people are not ideal owners and it simply is not worth the risk given the average owner's training, education and ability.

    Side note: if a dog bites my arm I will destroy its eyes. It ain't gonna shake crap after both its eyes are turned into gel by my fingers.
    The original breeding was to fight other dogs, not attack people. The last thing a person who bred fighting dogs would want is to breed a bunch of powerful dogs that wanted to kill him

    ANd dogfights take place in rings where the "fence" is no more than 2 feet high typically. If PB's were bred to attack humans, there'd be a lot more human fatalities at dogfights. Instead, if a fighting dog shows any sign of aggression towards humans at a dog fight, the owner takes it out back and shoots it immediately.

    And since dogs typically bite and then shake, good luck trying to poke its eyes out
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #90
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    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    They're vicious because they're large terriers, all terriers are aggressive, and because of the size and power of them, when they bite it's worse than being bitten by a Jack Russel.
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