View Poll Results: Should a dog owner be punished?

Voters
102. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, with jail time.

    32 31.37%
  • Yes, with a fine

    16 15.69%
  • No

    54 52.94%
Page 22 of 36 FirstFirst ... 12202122232432 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 220 of 356

Thread: Dog owner responsibility

  1. #211
    Advisor GreenvilleGrows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    My version of reality
    Last Seen
    10-05-12 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    566

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I agree with everything but the last bit, Thor. If a dog has a history of violence, especially towards humans, the owner should be held liable for it getting out again and committing violence. If it kills a child after having attacked another human, for example, the owner should be charged with a felony offense. Obviously the owner did nothing to prevent an attack despite knowing such an attack was possible.

    If there is no history of violence with the dog, I'd agree wholeheartedly with your statement, though.
    I agree with this. Although, I guess I still question the "history of violence" part. As lovable as dogs are, it could be said that dogs, in general, have a history of violence. If my gun has never hurt anyone and then one day it does, does the history mean I automatically get a pass the first time something happens?

    I'm not saying that everytime something happens someone has to go to jail. But if a dog does something that 12 jurors say the owner should've (not just could've) prevented, then the owner should be held responsible. Saying "well, the dog bred to attack and maime never did it before" seems like a weak defense to totally erase all responsibility - it might mitigate it, but it shouldn't elliminate it.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

  2. #212
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I agree with this. Although, I guess I still question the "history of violence" part. As lovable as dogs are, it could be said that dogs, in general, have a history of violence. If my gun has never hurt anyone and then one day it does, does the history mean I automatically get a pass the first time something happens?

    I'm not saying that everytime something happens someone has to go to jail. But if a dog does something that 12 jurors say the owner should've (not just could've) prevented, then the owner should be held responsible. Saying "well, the dog bred to attack and maime never did it before" seems like a weak defense to totally erase all responsibility - it might mitigate it, but it shouldn't elliminate it.
    I was specifically referring to a history of violence from the individual. Your analogy isn't an accurate one because guns are inanimate objects. If you allowed one person with a history of violence to use your gun and another person with no histpry of violence to use your gun,, it would be a more accurate comparison.

  3. #213
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenoa View Post
    I promise to never ask you to puppy sit for me
    Thank you for your consideration...
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  4. #214
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What do you have against dogs?
    Bit by one as a kid, chased by them on occasion while on my bike, almost had one cause an accident on the bike leg of a half-iron triathlon this spring, dogs in our building bark at all hours, and a friend of mine was attacked by one earlier this year on a LSD run in the mountains...
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  5. #215
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It sounds like you actually hate bad dog owners.
    I hate both...
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  6. #216
    Advisor GreenvilleGrows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    My version of reality
    Last Seen
    10-05-12 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    566

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I was specifically referring to a history of violence from the individual. Your analogy isn't an accurate one because guns are inanimate objects. If you allowed one person with a history of violence to use your gun and another person with no histpry of violence to use your gun,, it would be a more accurate comparison.
    I realize my comparison's not ideal. But, a comparison of one person with a history of violence who owns a dog and another person with no history of violence who owns a dog would be more like your suggestion.

    Lots of things, if taken care of improperly, can lead to unintended damage to others. Whether or not you intend for the damage to occur is not the only consideration for criminal liability. If you're reckless/negligent with your gun, someone can get hurt. If you're reckless/negligent with your dog, someone can get hurt. The gray area is what defines recklessness/negligence with the gun (or automobile or fire, etc.) vs. what what defines recklessness/negligence with a dog. You own a dog - it's yours. You're responsible for it. Reason and justice should be used in any accountability, but there is no reason to take jail off the table just because you didn't command your dog to hurt someone. If you know your dog is capable of violence (definition of a dog), and you know that said violence can result in injury (definition of some dogs), and your dog injures someone, then everything else just amounts to degrees of punishment.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

  7. #217
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I realize my comparison's not ideal. But, a comparison of one person with a history of violence who owns a dog and another person with no history of violence who owns a dog would be more like your suggestion.
    Not at all. The comparison is about the degree of negligent ownership. In either instance in each comparison (both dog and gun owner), the owners are being negligent (You don't loan out your gun to people, nor should you allow your dog to escape the yard).

    But in both comparisons, there is one owner who is more negligent than the other (the one who's dog has a history of violence, and the one who loans his gun to a peron with a history of violence).

    In truth, the comparison I made is an identical comparison, the only difference is that the specific thing being owned negligently is different (and thus, the criteria for negligent ownership change as a result of this).

    Lots of things, if taken care of improperly, can lead to unintended damage to others.
    Exactly. The issue isn't about negligent ownership in general, it is about the degree of negligence displayed.

    ...but there is no reason to take jail off the table just because you didn't command your dog to hurt someone.
    I never said anything like that. I said the opposite, actually.

    If someone commands their dog to attack, they should be charged with murder. That would be identical to shooting someone. The history of violence with the dog would be totally irrelevant in such a case.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 09-25-11 at 10:24 PM.

  8. #218
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 12:12 PM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    68,194

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I agree with everything but the last bit, Thor. If a dog has a history of violence, especially towards humans, the owner should be held liable for it getting out again and committing violence. If it kills a child after having attacked another human, for example, the owner should be charged with a felony offense. Obviously the owner did nothing to prevent an attack despite knowing such an attack was possible.

    If there is no history of violence with the dog, I'd agree wholeheartedly with your statement, though.
    If the bolded is the case, then I can see supporting it being a criminal offense, but a felony would have to depend on the circumstances. My wife was bit breaking up a dog "fight". Actually, she wasn't bit, a tooth caught her thumb and broke the skin. Some places would see that as committing violence. She's the first to admit that was her own fault. These dogs weren't even our dogs. I don't think the dog should be punished in that situation either. I think that decent people can attempt to be responsible, yet fail due to ignorance. I don't think society needs to be protected from these people by placing them in prison. I think a ownership ban should suffice. Some dogs can surprise you and get loose. A collar can come undone. A leash can break. A child could not properly close a door. But there are people that should be incarcerated for not caring enough to attempt to fix their situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  9. #219
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

    spud_meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Didjabringabeeralong
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    33,872
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    and a friend of mine was attacked by one earlier this year on a LSD run in the mountains...
    Maybe it was just a toad the he thought was a dog because of the LSD.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  10. #220
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Dog owner responsibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    If the bolded is the case, then I can see supporting it being a criminal offense, but a felony would have to depend on the circumstances. My wife was bit breaking up a dog "fight". Actually, she wasn't bit, a tooth caught her thumb and broke the skin. Some places would see that as committing violence. She's the first to admit that was her own fault. These dogs weren't even our dogs. I don't think the dog should be punished in that situation either. I think that decent people can attempt to be responsible, yet fail due to ignorance. I don't think society needs to be protected from these people by placing them in prison. I think a ownership ban should suffice. Some dogs can surprise you and get loose. A collar can come undone. A leash can break. A child could not properly close a door. But there are people that should be incarcerated for not caring enough to attempt to fix their situation.
    The situation you describe with your wife getting essentially scratched by a tooth isn't what I'd consider violence against a human either. I'm thinking more along the lines of the attack I received and mentioned earlier where the dog attacked me with the intent to harm me.

    And you provide good examples of non-negligent escapes, but if a dog has displayed the degree of aggressive violence I am talking about (a serious effort to actually attack a human -not one that was trespassing, though- as opposed to an accidental biting/scratching like the one you described), the owner should be taking far more strict precautions that would prevent such escapes.

    That being said, I think that more common sense attitudes need to be taken for defining a history of violence, though.

    Now, I bolded the ownership ban because that needs to be in place for any person who has a dog that has had multiple attacks (real attacks), regardless of how damaging the attacks are. They don't deserve to own a dog if they let it happen multiple times, IMO.

    But if someone dies or is permanently maimed by the second attack, I think it deserves a more severe punishment because a simple ban on pet ownership doesn't punish them enough for their negligence. If someone who is banned from ownership and illegally has a dog that kills someone, they should be treated just like a murderer.

    Bad owners deserve to be punished. Ignorant ones can be taught.

Page 22 of 36 FirstFirst ... 12202122232432 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •