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Population Control

Should the U.S. start controlling our population?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 24.6%

  • No

    Votes: 43 75.4%
  • Total voters
    57
Jryan said:
This is so hypocritical, man oh man. You also don't think it is right for the government to force people to make medication. :lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo
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where are you coming up with this idiotic projection. I am in favor of freedom. You apparently oppose that concept.
 
TurtleDude said:
after the first child you are warned. If you have a second the child goes to foster care and you are punished. you do not have the right to voluntarily impose cost on others. I have no problem spaying someone who flagrantly engages in such behavior
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Heavan forbid someone is forced to buy medical insurance.

Now forced sterilization...that's completely okay!
 
Jryan said:
It was supposed to be force people to take medication**.
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that makes no sense. want to rephrase it? aren't you the grammar nazi? your sentence is faulty.
 
iliveonramen said:
Heavan forbid someone is forced to buy medical insurance.

Now forced sterilization...that's completely okay!
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1) one is imposing on an innocent person

2) the second is punishment to stop someone from engaging in anti-societal behavior that imposes massive costs on others

you seem to think that people on the dole have an unlimited right to have as many children as they desire and therefore force the rest of us to pay for all those children (or I should say, force those of us who are already paying the taxes to pay even more)
 
Jryan said:
Just admit your beliefs are false and we will absolve you of your sins against DP. :)
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Its fun watching a college kid with no clue about the real world pretend he has the answers to everything. Oh to be 18 again and have the answers to all of society's problems.
 
TurtleDude said:
Its fun watching a college kid with no clue about the real world pretend he has the answers to everything. Oh to be 18 again and have the answers to all of society's problems.
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Oh to be (insert your age here) and have no clue what is going on in this thread again. (Cough Cough, I'm not 18, Cough cough) (Cough Cough, I graduated and worked for a long time and then went to school, Couch Cough) (Cough Cough, you are now trying to direct the conversation towards me to avoid your hypocrisy, Cough Cough)

OW! My throat hurts.
 
Jryan said:
Oh to be (insert your age here) and have no clue what is going on in this thread again. (Cough Cough, I'm not 18, Cough cough) (Cough Cough, I graduated and worked for a long time and then went to school, Couch Cough) (Cough Cough, you are now trying to direct the conversation towards me to avoid your hypocrisy, Cough Cough)

OW! My throat hurts.
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I don't see any hypocrisy in turtledude's posts
But what I do see is... you having a flawed view and you trying to point out a hypocrisy that doesn't exist.
 
1) one is imposing on an innocent person

2) the second is punishment to stop someone from engaging in anti-societal behavior that imposes massive costs on others

you seem to think that people on the dole have an unlimited right to have as many children as they desire and therefore force the rest of us to pay for all those children (or I should say, force those of us who are already paying the taxes to pay even more)
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No...I just think letting them have children then setting them on their own isn't a good thing. There are costs for everything. There's a reason we have such crime rates and have such a chunk of our population locked into prison. There's a huge population of Americans who have basically given up.

You'll end up spending a lot more in the long run...feeding them, clothing them, providing them medical care, because there will be more people in prison with 3rd grade educations and no future.
 
Jryan said:
Oh to be (insert your age here) and have no clue what is going on in this thread again. (Cough Cough, I'm not 18, Cough cough) (Cough Cough, I graduated and worked for a long time and then went to school, Couch Cough) (Cough Cough, you are now trying to direct the conversation towards me to avoid your hypocrisy, Cough Cough)

OW! My throat hurts.
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what hypocrisy? I believe in freedom for innocent people-you do not. I believe that those who irresponsibly and deliberately impose costs on others ought to be sanctioned for that behavior. You do not.
 
iliveonramen said:
No...I just think letting them have children then setting them on their own isn't a good thing. There are costs for everything. There's a reason we have such crime rates and have such a chunk of our population locked into prison. There's a huge population of Americans who have basically given up.

You'll end up spending a lot more in the long run...feeding them, clothing them, providing them medical care, because there will be more people in prison with 3rd grade educations and no future.
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yeah that is why we should not encourage such breeding by subsidizing it
 
TurtleDude said:
what hypocrisy? I believe in freedom for innocent people-you do not. I believe that those who irresponsibly and deliberately impose costs on others ought to be sanctioned for that behavior. You do not.
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Another thing here is you are giving rights to kids who do not even exist. Not even on paper do these kids exist.
 
Jryan said:
Another thing here is you are giving rights to kids who do not even exist. Not even on paper do these kids exist.
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wow the nether region again. that makes absolutely zero sense
 
TurtleDude said:
It is left wing programs that hand out money for unmarried women spewing out babies
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I agree with you, however it is a difficult situation. The reason the welfare doesn't get cut off is because people believe you'll punish the kid for the sins of the parent. And no doubt that is actually true, to an extent. I don't believe that if we give someone $1000 for each kid they have that each kid receives $1000 of benefit. In fact, I think they probably don't even get half that $1000 - I'm not much of an optimist in that area, having grown up in low income housing myself.

But, I don't believe you'll ever get enough support to eliminate that welfare. No, a far better approach would be to keep the welfare, but put it into some kind of format that cannot be used as compensation for the parents. You can eliminate the subsidy for breeders without eliminating the welfare for the kid. In fact, you can probably spend the same money and have a much higher benefit actually end up going to the kid. The first thing to do would be to eliminate cash and give the benefits in another way. Don't give the parent money to spend on clothing, give them a food-stamps like equivalent that can only be spent on approved clothing. (Nothing fancy on getting approved, just make sure the money is only spent on kid's clothing so that it doesn't buy new shoes for mommy.) Yes, a parent could buy children's clothing and then throw it on Ebay but it's more trouble to go through than simply giving the parent a big cash payout. So decide how to allocate the welfare, X dollars for clothing, Y dollars for food, Z dollars for whatever... Anything that can be provided in non-cash should be. For example, healthcare is almost impossible to misuse so provide healthcare to children.

You eliminate the monetary incentive to produce children without taking anything from the children themselves.
 
I'm in the majority, a surprise, as there are so many Libertarians and tea baggers here who feel that government should do as little as possible - even not exist..
We could do as the Chinese suggest and on the surface, its looks good....but with a little thought....which the Chinese seem to be short on....
As Atrasicarius states...improve education, reduce poverty...a much better mantra than the conservatives....cuts taxes, reduce government..
The people must think for themselves... a majority will do the right thing....government need do little to nothing here.
 
TurtleDude said:
what hypocrisy? I believe in freedom for innocent people-you do not. I believe that those who irresponsibly and deliberately impose costs on others ought to be sanctioned for that behavior. You do not.
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So now it is criminal to be in poverty?
 
I think that people should be able to have as many kids and they can support. When they start expecting someone else to pay to support them and their brood, time to tie the tubes.

If you want 15 kids and you can support them without crying for a govt handout, more power to you. If you can barely support yourself...maybe you should consider improving yourself before you breed.
 
I like how the republicans in this thread are crying like child wellfare is a big tax sump.

North Carolina
Child Welfare Financing

In SFY 1996 (7/1/95–6/30/96), North Carolina spent $162,154,210 on child welfare services, or about $93 per child under 18 in the state. Approximately half of the state's spending came from federal funds, a proportion slightly higher than the national average. Over one-quarter of the state's spending came from local funds, a larger proportion than found in most other states. North Carolina relied more heavily on Emergency Assistance funds for child welfare services than the nation as a whole did. Compared with the national average, the state spent a smaller proportion of federal and state funds on out-of-home placement.
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State Child Welfare Spending at a Glance: A Supplemental Report to the Cost of Protecting Vulnerable Children if you want to check your state.

Who here things 162 million dollars is a lot for us to take care of children? Oh, and just to really slam the Conservatives, notice that federal funding, over HALF OF IT!
 
Jryan said:
I like how the republicans in this thread are crying like child wellfare is a big tax sump.



State Child Welfare Spending at a Glance: A Supplemental Report to the Cost of Protecting Vulnerable Children if you want to check your state.

Who here things 162 million dollars is a lot for us to take care of children? Oh, and just to really slam the Conservatives, notice that federal funding, over HALF OF IT!
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why should I spend even a penny to take care of someone else's children? did they ever lift a finger to help take care of mine?
 
OscarB63 said:
why should I spend even a penny to take care of someone else's children? did they ever lift a finger to help take care of mine?
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Doesn't matter, are you okay with letting children suffer because you don't want to pay taxes?
 
Jryan said:
I like how the republicans in this thread are crying like child wellfare is a big tax sump.



State Child Welfare Spending at a Glance: A Supplemental Report to the Cost of Protecting Vulnerable Children if you want to check your state.

Who here things 162 million dollars is a lot for us to take care of children? Oh, and just to really slam the Conservatives, notice that federal funding, over HALF OF IT!
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So you're using one state as an example of 162 million dollars and that state is North Carolina? Add all the states, add in all the Federal money, add in all the charitable donations, and look at the big picture. What you're doing, and it's obvious, is cherry picking and whining about what conservatives think. At least be intellectually honest and look at the big picture - or don't bother.
 
Jryan said:
Doesn't matter, are you okay with letting children suffer because you don't want to pay taxes?
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why should I care, when their own parents don't care enough to take care of them?
 
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