View Poll Results: Should the U.S. start controlling our population?

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  • Yes

    93 65.96%
  • No

    48 34.04%
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Thread: Population Control

  1. #21
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Well, I'll stick with my original answers as far as birthrates go. Education and eliminating poverty are always better than trying to legislate babies. If immigration were to become so high, it actually caused overpopulation? Well, it would have to get really high for that to happen. If we were really getting so many immigrants that we didn't have a place to put all of them, I guess we wouldn't have any option but to crack down on immigration.
    The image that comes to mind when I read your comment is one of a lobster slowly being boiled to death and not realizing it. There is data online which can show you how much of our population today is the result of immigrants who've arrived in the last, say, 20 years plus their progeny.

    There is also data online which shows how commute times are increasing for people. For instance, between 1990 and 2000 there was a 50% increase in the number of people who commuted more than 60 minutes to their job.

    Stressed city infrastructure, water restrictions, overcrowded public schools, skyrocketing property taxes, are all related to increased population use of the social infrastructure. City boundaries extending into wildlife areas, increased forest fire risk to homes .

    When you have a stable social foundation and you add more people to that foundation, the new additions have to be positive economic contributors in order to keep the systems functioning as they are or improving them via more funding. When the newcomers are not carrying their weight, then they have to be subsidized and that reduces the quality of the public sphere.

    What exactly do you see as trigger points for there being too many people in the US? How about sprinkler bans for outdoor watering? They used to be unheard of in non-desert areas 40 years ago.

  2. #22
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The image that comes to mind when I read your comment is one of a lobster slowly being boiled to death and not realizing it. There is data online which can show you how much of our population today is the result of immigrants who've arrived in the last, say, 20 years plus their progeny.

    There is also data online which shows how commute times are increasing for people. For instance, between 1990 and 2000 there was a 50% increase in the number of people who commuted more than 60 minutes to their job.

    Stressed city infrastructure, water restrictions, overcrowded public schools, skyrocketing property taxes, are all related to increased population use of the social infrastructure. City boundaries extending into wildlife areas, increased forest fire risk to homes .

    When you have a stable social foundation and you add more people to that foundation, the new additions have to be positive economic contributors in order to keep the systems functioning as they are or improving them via more funding. When the newcomers are not carrying their weight, then they have to be subsidized and that reduces the quality of the public sphere.

    What exactly do you see as trigger points for there being too many people in the US? How about sprinkler bans for outdoor watering? They used to be unheard of in non-desert areas 40 years ago.
    Honestly, I think a lot of those problems could be solved if we just made immigration easier. It would let immigrants get real jobs and spread out more. It's not like they're not willing to work hard, after all. Our infrastructure is in serious need of an upgrade anyway. That's one thing you could set them to work doing.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Should the U.S. start controlling our population?

    Is there a need for population control? If not, what evidence do you have that there is not? Will there be a need in the near future?

    If so to what degree? I.E. How many children should be allowed? Should control be by economic status or equal to all families?

    I want to get a sense of where people are on this topic
    Great scott, if anything, we need to encourage more children, not less.

  4. #24
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Equal education, yes, absolutely. Health care should also be a guarantee. Wealth itself isn't going to be equal unless you either have an entirely communist state or you raise babies communally, neither of which I support. The thing with giving people land is that there isn't enough of it for what you have in mind. I'm a strong supporter of vertical urbanization as a solution to suburban sprawl, so that kind of makes giving people land impractical. In terms of social safety nets, I'm only in favor of traditional welfare for seniors and the disabled. We'll make sure you get a good job, but you actually need to work if you expect the government to support you. For people who manage to screw that up, I had an idea where people can basically voluntarily put themselves in prison, which would involved labor gangs, until they get their **** straightened out.
    Actually, all babies could easily be only given a certain amount of money and be allowed the same level of education; they could easily be given some partition of land or something equivalent to it (in terms of value) in order to make up for our folly of not thinking about land/property rights sooner.

    So under your form of safety net .. will that job be a paying wage?

    If so, I believe we are on the same page (almost .. I don't think your on the property/land rights bandwagon)

  5. #25
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Actually, all babies could easily be only given a certain amount of money and be allowed the same level of education; they could easily be given some partition of land or something equivalent to it (in terms of value) in order to make up for our folly of not thinking about land/property rights sooner.

    So under your form of safety net .. will that job be a paying wage?

    If so, I believe we are on the same page (almost .. I don't think your on the property/land rights bandwagon)
    Well, there's sort of two levels. First, there's the normal public jobs which pay a good wage, have good hours, and are easy to get. Second, if you somehow screw that up, there's the crappy job where you get quarters and food provided for you, and you basically spend most of your time working. It could probably pay a little bit to help people get straightened out, but the main purpose is to give people an incentive to not screw up at the first level. It would also serve as a prison, for when that's needed.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Well, there's sort of two levels. First, there's the normal public jobs which pay a good wage, have good hours, and are easy to get. Second, if you somehow screw that up, there's the crappy job where you get quarters and food provided for you, and you basically spend most of your time working. It could probably pay a little bit to help people get straightened out, but the main purpose is to give people an incentive to not screw up at the first level. It would also serve as a prison, for when that's needed.
    I am not sure I agree with the extremes of your argument because some people who are not dangerous to others either have mild MR or have mental disorders that disallow them to work normal jobs. I assume you would consider these people disabled? That would make it so that the current definition of "disabled" would be changed. I have talked to people who are clearly disabled and they were not able to find a job that they are able to do. However, contrary to how easy everyone thinks it is to get disability, this person did not.

    Also .. what agency would determine who is disabled and who is not? Do you feel the government is doing a good job?

  7. #27
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    I am not sure I agree with the extremes of your argument because some people who are not dangerous to others either have mild MR or have mental disorders that disallow them to work normal jobs. I assume you would consider these people disabled? That would make it so that the current definition of "disabled" would be changed. I have talked to people who are clearly disabled and they were not able to find a job that they are able to do. However, contrary to how easy everyone thinks it is to get disability, this person did not.

    Also .. what agency would determine who is disabled and who is not? Do you feel the government is doing a good job?
    It would probably tie in with the universal health care system. Much easier to do that sort of thing when all the medical records are in the same place and easily accessible.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Population Control

    Our population as Americans is not my concern. What is my concern is that people like President Bush, and Obama play games with our borders and allow illegals enter for NO good reason.

    We are being overrun by people we don't need taking up jobs and services that need to go to Americans.

    Way too many of those who are coming here want to change America into what they ran away from and it's BS, that needs to stop.

    Unless there are some serious changes in the attitudes of those in charge Our Nation will become Muslim and there will be nothing keeping them from killing you grandchildren, and their grandchildren.

    If you are one of the damn fools who say we need to allow Muslims to do as they please you are so very mixed up that I hope will get your wish, and that you will not happy when they are beheading you.


  9. #29
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Unless there are some serious changes in the attitudes of those in charge Our Nation will become Muslim and there will be nothing keeping them from killing you grandchildren, and their grandchildren.
    Obvious troll is obvious.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Population Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Unless there are some serious changes in the attitudes of those in charge Our Nation will become Muslim and there will be nothing keeping them from killing you grandchildren, and their grandchildren. If you are one of the damn fools who say we need to allow Muslims to do as they please you are so very mixed up that I hope will get your wish, and that you will not happy when they are beheading you.
    my god is there no end to your complete nonsense. and spamming the forum with this stupid same old youtube clip again...how many times is that now you have posted it in a thread? why are you allowed to continue to do it?

    as for the OP...

    population control. well, i would definitely say yes for people like Councilman. they should not be allowed to breed. ever.

    never. ever. ever.
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