View Poll Results: Do you think socialism could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way?

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    3 2.88%
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  • Absolutely

    10 9.62%
  • I think it could

    16 15.38%
  • I think it couldn't

    17 16.35%
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Thread: Socialism could have succeeded?

  1. #491
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    There are times, places and situations where competition is the most appropriate strategy and times, places and situations where cooperation is best. I expect that our hybrid capitalist-socialist system will continue with continuous rebalancing between the two strategies.

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Socialism can succeed in a populace that is completely void of greed, avarice, ambition, and uniqueness.

    In other words, it's perfect if you're a smurf...awful if you're a human.

  3. #493
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    I don't think people fully understand the failings of all previous attempts at socialism; it wasn't human nature of the population, it was human nature of the leading class. The guys who distribute the wealth are greedy, because people are greedy. Even if EVERY single citizen was greedy, but couldn't change the way the wealth is distributed, socialism would still work. Socialism has failed because we had humans in the mix, period. If we ran the distribution networks through automation, there wouldn't be anyway that human nature would influence the system. A new attempt that completely takes working out of the equation wouldn't breed resentment among workers. Capitalism is a great way to get people to think they're being paid fair for their work, even if they aren't. If work was completely separated from a living wage, or some form of wealth distribution, then all work would be voluntary. Most volunteers aren't resentful for not being paid, since that's the point of volunteering. How would someone resent being paid less than their work is worth, if they aren't expecting payment at all?

    We are at the point where technological advances have made socialism a viable plan. A new society based on volunteerism could replace capitalism. There are some problems to solve; we should have some way to give an incentive to work for the public good and "a warm feeling" probably isn't enough. But, we could create non-wealth based incentives, such as first dibs on scenic views, or voting rights only for those that work, there are plenty of ways to reward work without paying people.

    In the end, it's really the only kind of economy that can be sustainable over the long-term. Modern capitalism is becoming a bit of a pyramid scheme of just finding more ways for people to consume what companies make. With so much of our economy based on consumables and non-essential services, we're on the fast track to inflation-ville. When you look at how the Federal Reserve Bank is just printing money for the sake of consumerism, you know our money isn't actually based on anything stable. It will continue to inflate and will one day reach critical mass. So, if you really think capitalism is working, why is inflation so rampant? I might be wrong, but I assume that an economy that doesn't lead to inflation, wouldn't lead to inflation; yet, our commercialism has led to a rather steep inflation rate. Our inflation rate is it's own proof that our economy isn't working. I just don't see how anyone can really claim this is a strength of capitalism. Here's a CPI graph for laughs and cries;

    Last edited by douglas; 07-14-13 at 10:31 PM.

  4. #494
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    I am a social democrat and I don't think socialism could work. Socialism could only work in the absence of greed/envy/selfishness and sadly, humans will always be greedy/envious and selfish, it is on our nature and for that reason alone (with a lot of other reasons) socialism can not work IMHO.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  5. #495
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    It depends on if you mean full socialism or not, I'd argue that we have a fair amount of socialism now, therefore it never really dies out completely (and never really accomplished anything good)
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  6. #496
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    I think our socialized fire protection, policing, water, sewage, airport, garbage, and road maintenance services work pretty well. The public transportation could be better, but its a lot cheaper than the private alternatives.

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I think our socialized fire protection, policing, water, sewage, airport, garbage, and road maintenance services work pretty well. The public transportation could be better, but its a lot cheaper than the private alternatives.
    What world are you living in?

    911 calls go unanswered | WWAY NewsChannel 3 | Wilmington NC News
    Report Sees Investment Shortfall for Water Infrastructure - NYTimes.com
    Fewer U.S. Bridges Being Repaired, One in Nine Still "Structurally Deficient" - WNYC

    I can tell you that most airports, though the property is owned by the city, county and/or state, the runways, buildings and personnel are paid through the user fees collected by the local businesses, lease agreements and taxes on fuel and tickets. Very few airports require tax money from the local population in the form of property, sales or income tax. They are essentially privately run and managed.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  8. #498
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    One interesting tidbit about Karl Marx that almost all non white socialists today are not fully aware or versed on is that Karl Marx was a German racialist or in the most moderate terms a European racialist in the extreme. Marx's endall Communist Mecca after Socialism was only attainable by Europeans and Marx was not at all shy about this view in his writings, nor was Engel.

    If most Africans and Amerindians knew this they'd stay about as far away from Marxist ideology as a fly to a flame. Then again that's the great irony of 'Consumer politics' isn't it? Nobody really knows the history and authors writings of the ideologies they now profess to follow.



    That all said, I agree that capitalism is the way. I also agree that capitalism needs a 10-25% state buffer to prevent trust fund kids who aren't their innovative parents from sitting around a foreign policy room and starting nuclear wars after watching Fox News or MSNBC.


    I do accept that there does need to be a state 'Buffer Class' to the capitalist class to prevent destruction of the greater society by essentially delusional, out of touch rich kids with a big bank account and no perspective.


    One thing's for sure. Going to Polo matches and visiting Singapore penthouses does not connect little Joey with his countrymen's perspectives in the slightest.
    Last edited by Ryan5; 07-16-13 at 11:58 AM.

  9. #499
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    About 22 years ago socialism gave up and started disintegrating. Do you think it could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way? You know, if capitalism didn't oppose and let it be?

    We actually have a mix-breed system in the US. Part capitalism, part socialism. Both are needed. We just haven't worked out the bugs to decide how to mix the two appropriately.

  10. #500
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    About 22 years ago socialism gave up and started disintegrating. Do you think it could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way? You know, if capitalism didn't oppose and let it be?

    I think the biggest blow that came to communism was the soviet union and the control it was able to exercise over communist ideology outside it's state entity. Think of it as a self interested political entity that was able to exercise a level of orthodoxy over what people viewed as communism, and defund, de legitimize, and remove elements that it viewd as subversive to it. In fact, I think one of the big turning moments for the US communist parties (where they lost most of their membership), was in response to Stalin signing his peace pact with Hitler.

    Kind of signaled the end for the movement as an ideal

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