View Poll Results: Do you think socialism could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way?

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  • Don't know

    3 2.88%
  • Don't care

    3 2.88%
  • Absolutely

    10 9.62%
  • I think it could

    16 15.38%
  • I think it couldn't

    17 16.35%
  • No way

    55 52.88%
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Thread: Socialism could have succeeded?

  1. #471
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangha
    Correction: Full employment is a drag on all capitalist economies. And if you limit work, that gives you more free time. It's bass-ackwards to claim that more free time is a way to curtail individual pleasures. Not everyone finds time with their families to be as unpleasant as you seem to find it
    And just what am I supposed to do with no money and lots of free time? Sleep? Watch flowers grow? Discuss the birds and the bees with my buddies over a cup of Taster's Choice?

    The things I do take money. Football tickets aren't cheap (except when I went to U of M). Skiing is a rather expensive sport. Gas is three and a half bucks a gallon.

  2. #472
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper
    That's great and all for supply, but what about resources and capital? Those are definitely scarce. Efficient allocation is necessary to eliminate waste, and demand sets a curve that allows for need to be met with those available resources.
    It's quite absurd for you to speak of capitalism being "efficiently allocating" resources. Starving African children and whatnot.

    Full employment is a drag on all economies.
    Full employment is a drag on all economies operating within capitalist relations of production. Again, we're back to artificial scarcity.

    Also, if you limit work, what does that give you?
    WTF are you talking about? Shortened work hours provide less obligatory work time. Why the hell would anyone stop you if you want to contribute more?

    not to mention that all that extra work lets me buy cool stuff.
    Um are you talking about a capitalist or socialist society? Because a shortening of the work week wouldn't happen under capitalism anyways. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and are very confused.

    Any nations that end in "-ia" or "-stan".
    Oh I get it, you're a troll. Nevermind, then.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  3. #473
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    A commune is about social structure not technology.
    Why so few people live in a community? Because with so much legislation and regulation the commune is practically forbidden.
    So who is going to stop you if you start building a commune somewhere in Siberia, or Alaska? The reason you don't try is because you want to live in a modern society.

  4. #474
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    WTF are you talking about? Shortened work hours provide less obligatory work time. Why the hell would anyone stop you if you want to contribute more?
    Because eventually you'd lack viable ways to contribute. Of course, I keep forgetting that resources are unlimited, as is demand, so you could just work as much as you want because there will always be some use for whatever you make.

    God bless the LTV, laughable as it is.

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    So who is going to stop you if you start building a commune somewhere in Siberia, or Alaska? The reason you don't try is because you want to live in a modern society.
    1. I can't stand severe cold, I need Sun and heat. Ever occurred to you, smarty pants?
    2. Russian is not mother tongue. Nor is English.
    3. Russian state and bureaucracy are terrible. America is better but getting a visa for both countries will be a challenge and I don't want to be a criminal.

    So, what is this monopolistic attitude "it's my country, my land, if you don't like it go to the Moon"? Should I remind you how Americans got their land?

    P.S. Oh, I see you are in New Zealand. You have plenty of land. How about if we have the commune there, huh?
    Last edited by Canell; 09-27-11 at 04:49 PM.

  6. #476
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    If I thought we could get away with it, I'd give you and all those socialists California. Couldn't do any worse than what they've done.

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    1. I can't stand severe cold, I need Sun and heat. Ever occurred to you, smarty pants?
    2. Russian is not mother tongue. Nor is English.
    3. Russian state and bureaucracy are terrible. America is better but getting a visa for both countries will be a challenge and I don't want to be a criminal.
    1. There are many places in the world you could live. You could live in the Amazon if you wanted to. You could live in Mongolia, you could live in Sahara. The climate is not going to stop you. Most communes are inside cities, and often they don't get closed down even though they steal public utilities.

    2. Doesn't matter. If you live in these kind of places, then you won't need to speak Russian.

    3. Bureaucracy doesn't matter. Very few nations are going to care about a group living in the forest, away from everyone else. There are already people living by themselves in the amazon, so that is clearly an option.

    Just admit it, the reason you don't want to live in a commune away from everyone else, is because you are so used to modern life. Look aroud your house, how much did you or your friends make?

    So, what is this monopolistic attitude "it's my country, my land, if you don't like it go to the Moon"? Should I remind you how Americans got their land?
    I do remember. Americans went to the moon!
    Last edited by Camlon; 09-27-11 at 04:56 PM.

  8. #478
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Most socialists are lazy whiners with a chip on their shoulder and holding a grudge against everyone who did succeed with the attitude of "If I don't have it neither can you"

    . . . spoiled rotten brat montage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    No - I really think most socialists are bitter and seeking bringing everyone down to their level rather than uplifting others.
    Most capitalists like to make sweeping, holier than thou generalizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post

    But the tone of your post points to my previous assertion: bitter-socialist.
    When you insult people they tend to respond bitterly, wouldn't you say?

    If I said most women are bitter and make less money than men because they are lazy and incapable of earning as much as most men, you might respond with some bitterness.

    In a capitalism system - when we help others - what we try to do is give them the means to make something of their selves: educational support, temporary assistance, assistance finding jobs, quitting bad habits and other things that will hold them back.
    You mean you sell them these things.
    Last edited by Bardo; 09-27-11 at 04:54 PM.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    P.S. Oh, I see you are in New Zealand. You have plenty of land. How about if we have the commune there, huh?
    I am not really up for that, but if you come down under, I'll find you a place to live.

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    2. Doesn't matter. If you live in these kind of places, then you won't need to speak Russian.

    I do remember. Americans went to the moon!
    Very funny, ha-ha-ha.
    I'm warning you, I won't take ridicule or manipulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I am not really up for that, but if you come down under, I'll find you a place to live.
    Ok, thanks. I'll consider that.
    Last edited by Canell; 09-27-11 at 05:04 PM.

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