View Poll Results: Do you think socialism could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way?

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  • Don't know

    3 2.88%
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    3 2.88%
  • Absolutely

    10 9.62%
  • I think it could

    16 15.38%
  • I think it couldn't

    17 16.35%
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    55 52.88%
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Thread: Socialism could have succeeded?

  1. #421
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist
    Democratic socialism can never be achieved?
    Oh, that's an easy one - no. Never.

    Your best shot would be a small anarchistic commune somewhere. Outside of that, no.

  2. #422
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    In other forms of socialism such as democratic socialism, the government is run directly by the people, citizens have private property, citizens may have small businesses, and citizens have just as many freedoms if not more than there are in the current society.
    This doesn't demonstrate my error, given that state ownership of the means to produce and distribute wealth isn't depenent on or excluded from any form of government.

    You assume that it represents the views of socialism, you are also wrong
    How I am wrong? How is socialsim necessarily tied to/excluded from any particular form of government?

    What is the matter with the wealthy giving up part of their fortune in order to feed the poor?
    This does not address what I said.

    If there is no entitlement to the means to a right, then how can it be a right?
    This does not address what I said.

    Except you can under socialism.
    When the state owns and controls the means of prodcing and distributing wealth, how is it possible, for me to own/control a for-profit business and/or keep my wealth from being distributed to others?

  3. #423
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiesolutions View Post
    Socialism is the next thing to Communism...Who in their right mind wants that sort of Goverment Rule?
    There are those that are simply lazy, ignorant, envious of those that self acheive in life, that would approve of Socialism.
    Having a Ruling Goverment that controls everyones life. A Big Brother Eye in the sky watching every move you make.
    Ignorance is not that bliss in America, I hope not.
    You're convinced that socialism = totalitarian communism/leninism. I don't blame you, you are an American who has been raised to fight the Soviets. Our propaganda was just as sly as theirs.

    Extreme, invasive government isn't synonymous with socialism. Was George Bush/administration Socialist? If you're worried about "Big Brother", worrisome surveillance and government taking more control over our personal lives you should be concerned with the Bush administration. You should be worried about nationalism and anti-islamism at this point, not socialism.
    Last edited by Bardo; 09-26-11 at 02:59 PM.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  4. #424
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Oh, that's an easy one - no. Never.

    Your best shot would be a small anarchistic commune somewhere. Outside of that, no.
    Ok, here's the part where you tell us why it can never be achieved.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  5. #425
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo
    Extreme, invasive government isn't synonymous with socialism. Was George Bush/administration Socialist? If you're worried about "Big Brother", worrisome surveillance and government taking more control over our personal lives you should be concerned with the Bush administration. You should be worried about nationalism and anti-islamism at this point, not socialism.
    It isn't 2003 anymore.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #426
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It isn't 2003 anymore.
    Policies from 2003 are still in place. So it kind of is.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo
    Ok, here's the part where you tell us why it can never be achieved.
    Mankind. It's as simple as that. You cannot have fully libertarian/democratic anything on large-scale because it will be manipulated, and force will (and must) be used to quell potential usurpers. At least with a laissez-faire system you can have significant portions of libertarianism because any occurrences or outcomes are not necessarily met with oppression. Socialist tendency to trim the tallest weed cannot boast the same.

    I don't know why you're questioning the why. It's probably been explained to you ad nauseum. It gets really annoying when you pull an ostrich and duck into the sand when explained, only to regurgitate the same meaningless question to annoy the next logical explanation.

  8. #428
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Mankind. It's as simple as that. You cannot have fully libertarian/democratic anything on large-scale because it will be manipulated, and force will (and must) be used to quell potential usurpers. At least with a laissez-faire system you can have significant portions of libertarianism because any occurrences or outcomes are not necessarily met with oppression. Socialist tendency to trim the tallest weed cannot boast the same.

    I don't know why you're questioning the why. It's probably been explained to you ad nauseum. It gets really annoying when you pull an ostrich and duck into the sand when explained, only to regurgitate the same meaningless question to annoy the next logical explanation.
    He said democratic socialism, not libertarianism. That's a whole different conversation that I'm pretty sure we've already had.

    Now, why is democracy incompatible with a socialist economics?

    Specifics. Don't say "Earth." or "Human civilization."
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Well, if you want to get technical about it, democracy cannot be determined to be incompatible with any structure or philosophy. You could have democratic fascism if you wanted to.

    It's a losing proposition. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Now, why is democracy incompatible with a socialist economics?
    The irony is that socialism is one true democracy. "Democracy" means "rule of the people". So does socialism.

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