View Poll Results: Do you think socialism could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way?

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  • Don't know

    3 2.88%
  • Don't care

    3 2.88%
  • Absolutely

    10 9.62%
  • I think it could

    16 15.38%
  • I think it couldn't

    17 16.35%
  • No way

    55 52.88%
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Thread: Socialism could have succeeded?

  1. #381
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    It's not the stretch you think it is...
    I totally agree with the Gip here. We cannot forget that Nazis were/are the "National Socialist" Party. Tread lightly ye psuedo-Socialists, Adolf Hitler began with similar ideology, and we all know where that eventually led.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  2. #382
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I worked hard for it, I earned it, I deserve it, I don't want to share it with lazy people just because we're citizens of the same nation. Or how about, Mine! Mine! I want more! I want it all! This, sadly, comprises a great deal of human nature......and it generally doesn't fit well with the whole socialist mantra.
    This is not inherent to humans irrespective of social situation. You are abstracting out illogically.




    [/INDENT]
    This type of thinking is not inherent in a great deal of humanity? Really? Prove it? What kind of humans have you been hanging out with? None of them exhibit a competitive nature, greed, or strive for success, or to improve their "lot in life"? Boy, you must attend some really exciting dinner parties!
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 09-22-11 at 11:22 PM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  3. #383
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    I totally agree with the Gip here. We cannot forget that Nazis were/are the "National Socialist" Party. Tread lightly ye psuedo-Socialists, Adolf Hitler began with similar ideology, and we all know where that eventually led.
    Give me a break. Germany has had heavy socialist influence since the 19th century, it would be like someone in the US today using capitalist and American nationalist rhetoric to gain massive support. The first thing he did when he took power was burn down the Reichstag, which was blamed on the Marxists, who he associated with Judaism. Socialists and communists were then rounded up and deported or enslaved. Fascism has been the antithesis to communism throughout history.

    In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated.....

    ...In this way the struggle against the present State was placed on a higher plane than that of petty revenge and small conspiracies. It was elevated to the level of a spiritual struggle on behalf of a WELTANSCHAUUNG, for the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms....
    - Hitler, Mein kampf
    Last edited by Bardo; 09-22-11 at 11:29 PM.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  4. #384
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Give me a break. Germany has had heavy socialist influence since the 19th century, it would be like someone in the US today using capitalist and American nationalist rhetoric to gain massive support. The first thing he did when he took power was burn down the Reichstag, which was blamed on the Marxists, who he associated with Judaism. Socialists and communists were then rounded up and deported or enslaved. Fascism has been the antithesis to communism throughout history.



    - Hitler, Mein kampf
    Notice....before you get yer panties in a wad....this is why I clearly said PSUEDO-SOCIALISTS.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  5. #385
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Notice....before you get yer panties in a wad....this is why I clearly said PSUEDO-SOCIALISTS.
    What exactly is pseudo-socialism? Was Hitler a social-democrat before he was a fascist?
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  6. #386
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    What exactly is pseudo-socialism? Was Hitler a social-democrat before he was a fascist?
    Those who proclaim the socialist mantra, using it to garner support from the masses, then fashion it into support for a virtual welfare state or into something worse........a fascist/authoritarian type of state.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  7. #387
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Those who proclaim the socialist mantra, using it to garner support from the masses, then fashion it into support for a virtual welfare state or into something worse........a fascist/authoritarian type of state.
    Would this be any different from someone who uses a capitalist mantra to garner support from the masses, then fashions it into a fascist/authoritarian state? You seem to be describing deception, which isn't unique to any political ideology.

    I don't see how welfare states have anything to do with nazism.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  8. #388
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Would this be any different from someone who uses a capitalist mantra to garner support from the masses, then fashions it into a fascist/authoritarian state? You seem to be describing deception, which isn't unique to any political ideology.

    I don't see how welfare states have anything to do with nazism.
    Yes, very different. If you can't understand that then you have a real problem understanding the whole premise of the free market or a truly capitalistic society which, inherently could/would not allow itself to be transformed into a truly authoritarian or fascist state. Private ownership and control over the means of production tends to be the stumbling block here.

    And I presented the two possibilities as different, but both extreme ends.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  9. #389
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenoa View Post
    And, I will make a comment on my vote that I think it couldn't in the United States. And it goes without saying that the U.S. is a federal constitutional republic that utilizes a capitalistic economy. The will of the people (voters), by majority, voted in capitalism instead of socialism. Therefore, capitalism stood in the way of socialism.
    I think you are mixed up a little, It is not the capitalism or the republic that keeps America free, it is that America is a democratic Goverment and the majority in this kind of Goverment is the ruling power. If this country was Governed by capitalism then we would all be slaves and working for what the corparation would give us. In other words we would go back to before the Cilvil War were the rich would own you and if they wanted to feed you they would, if they didn't want to feed you they wouldn't.

  10. #390
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by dumbasdirt View Post
    I think you are mixed up a little, It is not the capitalism or the republic that keeps America free, it is that America is a democratic Goverment and the majority in this kind of Goverment is the ruling power.
    This is no way keeps us free, as such a govrnment is perfectly capable of eliminating freedom.
    What -ultimately- keeps us free is a societal commitment to the ideals of liberty and the willingness to use force to protect it.

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