View Poll Results: Do you think socialism could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way?

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    3 2.88%
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  • Absolutely

    10 9.62%
  • I think it could

    16 15.38%
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    17 16.35%
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Thread: Socialism could have succeeded?

  1. #21
    Sage
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Reality stands in the way of socialism.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  2. #22
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    About 22 years ago socialism gave up and started disintegrating.

    Did it? Or are you confusing socialism with communism/marxist-leninism?

    Socialism is alive and well in many parts of the world, including the most prosperous ones.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  3. #23
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    If you're invoking Scandanavia, I'm going to punch you.

  4. #24
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Most of the examples being discussed; the USSR, the PRC, etc., have nothing to do with Socialism. That we associate them with it is a result of a confluence between two of the worlds' greatest propaganda machines; the United States and the Soviet Union. The Soviet police state sought to claim the very real moral authority of socialism while annihilating it at every turn. The United States government sought to tarnish Socialism by reinforcing this association. So, it's no doubt that this piece of 'common wisdom' is so resilient, even though it's erroneous. If we wanted to discuss real Socialism, we'd be talking about the Ukranian Makhnovschina, we'd be talking about Catalonia, we'd be talking about the Kibbutzim, etc., etc.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  5. #25
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    If you're invoking Scandanavia, I'm going to punch you.
    That includes Scandinavia. It's not a planned, socialist economy but the important industries that benefit these countries the most are state owned. Socialism doesn't have to be a dogmatic, inflexible system where 0% of the economy is privatized.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  6. #26
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    You mean if capitalism wasn't so superior and kicked it's ass?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  7. #27
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    About 22 years ago socialism gave up and started disintegrating.
    Bad start there. 22 years ago Soviet "communism" gave up and started disintegrating. The idea that Soviet socialism is the only model of socialism is a major fallacy.

  8. #28
    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by cephus View Post
    you mean if capitalism wasn't so superior and kicked it's ass?
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    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  9. #29
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Socialism is succeeding just fine. It's the direction that civilization has been heading towards for centuries. Or rather, we've been heading away from inequality and mass ownership and control by the powerful few. Capitalism, with protections for the property rights of many, was a hugely important step in this process. The trend is continuing past that towards socialist ideals, and will continue even past them. Socialism is working just fine, and will continue to do so, up until the next step comes along.

    Gipper's above statement about inevitability was half right, in that progressing past capitalism is just as inevitable as progressing to it in the first place.
    Well done!

    IMO socialism IS succeeding, even here in the US

    We have socialized roads, railroads, airports, bridges, tunnels, fire dept, water, electricity, nuclear power, pension system (SS), health care, post office, libraries, agriculture (supported with generous govt subsidies), financial system (Wall St bailouts and the Fed banking system), and on and on

    The funniest thing about this is the people who are so blind they think socialism has failed in the US when everyday they are using resources provided by our socialistic govt
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #30
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Did it? Or are you confusing socialism with communism/marxist-leninism?

    Socialism is alive and well in many parts of the world, including the most prosperous ones.
    Not really, any country that you could possibly list as "socialist" is predominantly capitalist, with a teasing of socialism.

    The biggest failure of socialism is that, many of it's proponents think, it should be operated by an authority rather than be organic in nature.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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