View Poll Results: Do you think socialism could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way?

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  • Don't know

    3 2.88%
  • Don't care

    3 2.88%
  • Absolutely

    10 9.62%
  • I think it could

    16 15.38%
  • I think it couldn't

    17 16.35%
  • No way

    55 52.88%
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Thread: Socialism could have succeeded?

  1. #251
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Nor I you...
    There's no comparison. While it can be scientific, I don't claim Anarchism is a science. I don't claim to have heretofore unknown or inacessible revelations about how the world, or the universe works. I don't claim to be able to predict the future. Etc., etc. I don't make any wild truth claims. I merely make philosophical and ethical arguments about how things should be.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  2. #252
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    There's no comparison. While it can be scientific, I don't claim Anarchism is a science. I don't claim to have heretofore unknown or inacessible revelations about how the world, or the universe works. I don't claim to be able to predict the future. Etc., etc. I don't make any wild truth claims. I merely make philosophical and ethical arguments about how things should be.
    Wow, you just love getting the last word in don't you.

    As far as I know, I haven't made any such claims...

    I merely make ahistorical arguments about how things should be.
    FTFY
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  3. #253
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Wow, you just love getting the last word in don't you.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    As far as I know, I haven't made any such claims...
    You have claimed that Marxism is a science. The rest is implicit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    FTFY
    I don't see anything 'ahistorical' about my perscriptions.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  4. #254
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    You have claimed that Marxism is a science.
    Well that depends on how you define the word science. This is obviously a discussion I'm not interested in having with you. And I haven't actually made that claim on this board, AFAIK.

    The rest is implicit.
    How is the rest "implicit"? Who is claiming to have inaccessible knowledge or be able to predict the future? Popper's work is trash, btw, because he takes on a very fundamentally flawed reading of Marx, akin to Bernsteinism/Economism which is obviously why he thinks it's reductionist (i.e. all three volumes of his work are one big straw man filled with worthless trash - and yes I read, and suffered through, all of them; then again, I don't ascribe to propagandistic crap like the totalitarianism school of thought).

    I don't see anything 'ahistorical' about my perscriptions.
    Your entire discussion with these turds that talk about how anarchism/socialism/communism has "failed" is entirely within an ahistorical dichotomy.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 09-21-11 at 02:03 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  5. #255
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Well that depends on how you define the word science. This is obviously a discussion I'm not interested in having with you. And I haven't actually made that claim on this board, AFAIK.



    How is the rest "implicit"? Who is claiming to have inaccessible knowledge or be able to predict the future? Popper's work is trash, btw, because he takes on a very fundamentally flawed reading of Marx, akin to Bernsteinism/Economism which is obviously why he thinks it's reductionist (i.e. all three volumes of his work are one big straw man filled with worthless trash - and yes I read, and suffered through, all of them; then again, I don't ascribe to propagandistic crap like the totalitarianism school of thought).



    Your entire discussion with these turds that talk about how anarchism/socialism/communism has "failed" is entirely within an ahistorical dichotomy.
    This is a complete waste of time. It's like arguing with an Evangelical Christian. **** it.

    Incidentally; you did make that claim, here;
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059697010
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  6. #256
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    This is a complete waste of time. It's like arguing with an Evangelical Christian. **** it.

    Incidentally; you did make that claim, here;
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059697010
    I never made that claim in that post...
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  7. #257
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    I think that comparing capitalism with socialism/communism is like... apples and oranges. Capitalism is a type of economic engine. Socialism/communism is a form of government. There's no reason you couldn't operate a country under Capitalistic Communism, is there? Seems to me that China's doing just that...No???

  8. #258
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    I think that comparing capitalism with socialism/communism is like... apples and oranges. Capitalism is a type of economic engine. Socialism/communism is a form of government. There's no reason you couldn't operate a country under Capitalistic Communism, is there? Seems to me that China's doing just that...No???
    Freedom and liberty are incompatible with socialism/communism. Sure, you can have a capitalist-communist-authoritarian hybrid, but it sure isn't going to be free.

  9. #259
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito
    Freedom and liberty are incompatible with socialism/communism.
    These terms mean absolutely nothing outside of their concrete expression in reality, so why don't you go ahead and define what they mean for us.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  10. #260
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    I think he means individual freedom and liberty, at which point it would be true. Individualism is squashed at the hands of the collective, thereby making it de facto authoritarian.

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