View Poll Results: Do you think socialism could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way?

Voters
104. You may not vote on this poll
  • Don't know

    3 2.88%
  • Don't care

    3 2.88%
  • Absolutely

    10 9.62%
  • I think it could

    16 15.38%
  • I think it couldn't

    17 16.35%
  • No way

    55 52.88%
Page 25 of 51 FirstFirst ... 15232425262735 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 250 of 502

Thread: Socialism could have succeeded?

  1. #241
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    When commies fight, everyone wins.

  2. #242
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 12:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    18,536
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    A functioning socialist system would make such trade unnecessary. Or maybe it should be forbidden given that resources should be strategically allocated by the state. This socialism thing... so complicated.
    Has a socialistic state ever functioned without trade? Perhaps this theory only succeeds in theory? Obviously it's good for a nation to have some socialistic elemets but as they say too much of a good thing ca turn into a really bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Sure you did, like you always do, you buy into their terms of the discussion, i.e. a completely ahistorical dichotomy completely divorced from reality.

    The 8 hour work day is oppressive because it hinders the choice of workers to work as much as they want to support their family!
    Can I have a book or a website containing your terms of discussion? That would help a tremendous bit. If not then how does one know what you mean when you communicate? Where can I find this key stone of lore?

    Well, you can't always get what you want. Why should a worker decide how many hours he'll work regardless of his boss's opinion?


    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    For libertarians, "freedom" means "freedom to cheat and steal"
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    "Free markets" are a fantasy. They never existed and never will
    You're going to have to back these statements up with evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Do you think the freedom of speech only extends to speech you agree with?
    Good question. Though I'm curious if that could apply to everyone.. Then again, I haven't seen the right try to control others with political correctness so...

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    My words were clear, but if you have a problem with any of them, just tell me which one and I will post a link to dictionary.com
    Not words, but statements. The statements you have to back up.

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    This is an ideological difference. I am not a Marxist. I don't subscribe to Historical Materialism.
    Imho you should make a thread encapsulating your comprehensive political beliefs and link it into your sig. That way there'd be no more confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    When commies fight, everyone wins.
    Sarcasm for the win. This is similar to that one statement I heard in the past that communism is the most concentrated form of freedom.

  3. #243
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,881

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by gipper
    When commies fight, everyone wins.


    NGMN85 isn't a commie...
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  4. #244
    Professor
    NGNM85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    11-10-17 @ 11:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    1,571

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It has nothing to do with historical materialism, it has to do with being entirely ahistoric. History isn't a set of experiments conducted in complete isolation, this is common sense, yet both yourself and everyone you are responding to can't seem to wrap your heads around that obvious fact.
    That's good, because Historical Materialism is fundamentally flawed.

    On it's face, this appears to be an obvious and banal truism. What it has to do with anything escapes me. Perhaps there was some post I missed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    NGMN85 isn't a commie...[/INDENT]
    It depends entirely on context. In terms of advocating a stateless, classless society, essentially, the final stage in Marx's eschatology, that's very nearly ideal. In that sense; I am, technically, a communist. However; I never self-apply this designation, and prefer not to be categorized as such.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  5. #245
    Professor
    NGNM85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    11-10-17 @ 11:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    1,571

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Has a socialistic state ever functioned without trade? Perhaps this theory only succeeds in theory? Obviously it's good for a nation to have some socialistic elemets but as they say too much of a good thing ca turn into a really bad thing.
    Socialism does not necessarily preclude the existence of markets. Furthermore; it is entirely possible that a Libertarian Federation could trade with other economic actors, such as Nation-States.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Can I have a book or a website containing your terms of discussion? That would help a tremendous bit. If not then how does one know what you mean when you communicate? Where can I find this key stone of lore?
    We've got a number of individuals, here, representing several different ideologies. You might want to read the Wikipedia articles on Anarchism, and Marxism, as a start. (As well as the article on the differences, and points of conflict between Anarchism and Marxism.) I could also recommend some basic, introductory texts, like The Communist Manifesto, or the Anarchist FAQ, etc. You can also Google any terms ou don’t understand, or just ask. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m usually quite agreeable to elaborating or clarifying things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Well, you can't always get what you want. Why should a worker decide how many hours he'll work regardless of his boss's opinion?
    Under Libertarian Socialism private property doesn’t exist, and there are balanced job complexes, so there is no pure, elite, managerial caste. There would be a workers’ council, which would represent the specific facility, which would be interlinked with broader workers’ councils with broader decisions encompassing a multitude of enterprises. Decisions would be made democratically, with bigger decisions requiring a vote by a higher council, or a broader majority, whereas smaller decisions would be made in-house, requiring a smaller majority, or, perhaps, made by consensus, depending on the circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    You're going to have to back these statements up with evidence.
    I’m not sure what evidence you seek, but if you search this historical record you’ll find very few precedents for anything like a Free Market. This is why I characterize the present economic modality, as some economists do, as ‘Corporate Mercantilism.’

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Imho you should make a thread encapsulating your comprehensive political beliefs and link it into your sig. That way there'd be no more confusion.
    Anarchism is a deeply misunderstood philosophy. Virtually no-one who isn’t a history major, or whatever, knows anything about it. It isn’t typically covered in the core curriculum in High School, or History survey classes. I tried to start a thread on Anarchism some time ago, with all sorts of media; articles, pamphlets, videos, etc. It didn’t generate much interest. You can check it out, here;

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...chist-faq.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Sarcasm for the win. This is similar to that one statement I heard in the past that communism is the most concentrated form of freedom
    'Communism' has several meanings, so context would be key. Libertarian Socialism is, absolutely, the least authoritarian model of social organization, imaginable.
    Last edited by NGNM85; 09-20-11 at 06:11 PM.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  6. #246
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,881

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    That's good, because Historical Materialism is fundamentally flawed.
    Explain this, please.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  7. #247
    Professor
    NGNM85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    11-10-17 @ 11:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    1,571

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Explain this, please.
    I'm not going to derail the thread, but probably the biggest flaw is that it's unfalsifiable, and therefore, meaningless. It's also overly economically reductionistic, and deterministic. Etc., etc. It's nine-tenths nonsense.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  8. #248
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,881

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85
    I'm not going to derail the thread, but probably the biggest flaw is that it's unfalsifiable, and therefore, meaningless. It's also overly economically reductionistic, and deterministic. Etc., etc. It's nine-tenths nonsense.
    Ah, the Popper argument. Yeah, don't bother writing it out it'd be a waste of space.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  9. #249
    Professor
    NGNM85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    11-10-17 @ 11:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    1,571

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Ah, the Popper argument. Yeah, don't bother writing it out it'd be a waste of space.
    Probably. I don't have any illusions about disabusing you of your misconceptions, either.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  10. #250
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,881

    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    I don't have any illusions about disabusing you of your misconceptions, either.
    Nor I you...
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

Page 25 of 51 FirstFirst ... 15232425262735 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •