View Poll Results: Do you think socialism could have succeeded if capitalism wasn't standing on the way?

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  • Don't know

    3 2.88%
  • Don't care

    3 2.88%
  • Absolutely

    10 9.62%
  • I think it could

    16 15.38%
  • I think it couldn't

    17 16.35%
  • No way

    55 52.88%
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Thread: Socialism could have succeeded?

  1. #201
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    I'd rather have the original from Ferdinand Toennies - Community and Society

    You can not use one individual as a source. So I won't accept that source.

    Also, in this example it makes no sense to use any other source than Oxford definition. That is because they use their own definitions. We want to know what oxford mean by community, not what community is.

  2. #202
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Allright, let's take a look at other sources. Of course there are slight variations, but they get to the same conclusion.

    Wikipedia agrees with Oxford Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Dictionary.com agrees with the oxford definition

    Are they all wrong?
    No one is arguing about pure socialism. Time to get your nose out of the books and get out into the real world where nothing is pure.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #203
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    You can not use one individual as a source. So I won't accept that source.

    Also, in this example it makes no sense to use any other source than Oxford definition. That is because they use their own definitions. We want to know what oxford mean by community, not what community is.
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    How dare you use a definition that is not Camlon-approved?
    Did I call it, or what?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #204
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No one is arguing about pure socialism. Time to get your nose out of the books and get out into the real world where nothing is pure.
    I already responded to this argument.

    There are of course some leeway, but if a system is clearly not following the principles of socialism, then it is certainly not socialism. Doesn't help if parts of the system is similar to socialism. It still won't be socialism.

  5. #205
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And if you want to see any official sources from me, read the thread. You obviously have not done that
    I took a look at the thread with the search button.

    Not once did you source your own definitions. You were corrected and given the proper definition,

    "Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are either state owned or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively, or a political philosophy advocating such a system"

    then you misunderstood the definition and said it allows the means of production to be just regulated, then he pointed out how wrong you were. Then you said he didn't include the whole sentence, but the last statement doesn't make your statement right. It only says that socialism can be a political philosophy.
    Last edited by Camlon; 09-19-11 at 01:14 PM.

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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #207
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Reality stands in the way of socialism.
    Perhaps in it's purest "text book form" but it seems to me it, like a virus, simply mutated and lives dormant most of the time. In a way, some of the aspects have stayed but the totalitarian side effects and defects are rejected. I know it's not a very good analogy but I sorta see Socialism as herpes... you never get rid of it and it only makes its appearance once in a while as a minor annoyance.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    In what ways are they socialist? For instance take a look at Germany.

    Economic freedom (heritage): 77.8 (US) ... 71.8 (Germany)
    Economic freedom(fraser) : 8.0 (US) ... 7.5 (Germany)
    Government spending: 42.46 (US) ... 47.00 (Germany)

    And just for the comparison, governmental spending in Switzerland is 34.17% and 17% in Singapore in 2010. Also, economic freedom in Switzerland is 81.9 (heritage) and 8.1 (fraser)

    Why do people think Scandinavia or any of the European countries are socialists? They are not, regulations are low, there is huge support for free trade. Private people, not the government own the means of production, charter schools are normal. It is easy to open up a business, and taxes are just marginally higher than the US. However, if you take into account the upcoming mandatory private insurance in the US, taxes are about the same. If Germany is socialist, so is America.

    OECD Statistics
    Economic Freedom of the World
    The Heritage Foundation
    good way of looking at it. But they still have horrible gun control laws. I know Swiss aren't super strict but not very lax either. I'm in Missouri and we have some of the best LEAST gun control laws in the country. I'm in a smaller city of Kansas City and we have never had a murder in the 4 years I've lived in these two counties. People know someone probably carries.

  9. #209
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Is it true that with socialistic nations they eventually run out of other people's money?

    That being the case, how could socialism ever succeed?

  10. #210
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    Re: Socialism could have succeeded?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Socialism means commonly owned and controlled, not just owned and controlled by employees or their representative (ie the union)
    Means of production would be commonly owned, but self managed by those who use it. The unionism is an aspect of syndicalism, not libertarian-socialism in general.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Just don't include libertarian socialism or anarcho-anything. All socialism is authoritarian.
    Except for you know, libertarian socialism and anarcho-anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The questioned asked in this poll is so stupid it's hardly worth addressing. It's like asking "could people fly if gravity wasn't standing in the way?"

    Socialists want to abolish gravity. Not gonna happen. Let's focus our mental energies on something less stupid, shall we?
    Derpa derp
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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