View Poll Results: Did evolution leave all races with equal mental and physical competency?

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Thread: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Evidence abounds which invalidates your liberal creationist assumption that all of humanity has an identical intelligence profile..
    do you have any GOOD evidence to the contrary?

    btw, Creationism has nothing to do with this topic.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Prove it's racism. Prove I'm a black racist because I question the assumption that all races were left with equal overall intelligence.
    And here you trump all of the ignorant liberal creationists in this thread who love to play like they're smart but they convince themselves to hold a belief based on creationist nonsense. Believing in fairy tales, no matter how puffed up by convoluted reasoning is not really a good sign to signal to people that one is smart.

    You're starting with the most parsimonious positions - we see evolution all around us and therefore there is no reason to presume that some magic forcefield has kept the human brain immune from evolution in the last 60,000 years.

    You can't have diversity and equality. If everyone is equal then no one is diverse.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    I have yet to check if this is a peer reviewed article (it may not be as most researchers and achademics would not want to touch the subject with a 50 ft pole) ..
    What do you think that tells us? Why shouldn't such science be pursued?

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    And here you trump all of the ignorant liberal creationists in this thread...
    please cease with the ad homs. thanks.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    My post was made Merely to show donsutherland's claim of "99.9"%" was NOT definitive or even logical in being able to 'demonstrate' if there Could be IQ difference among humans.
    You have deconextualized my statement.
    In doing so, you have unwittingly re-enforced My point about His claim.
    The whole "percent" idea, which HE said precluded significant IQ difference .. does NOT.
    I assume you agree despite yourself taking an illogical partisan/PC stance on who to oppose.
    So when you say someone is jumping to conclusions, it's okay, but when I show that you are jumping to conclusions I'm "taking an illogical partisan/PC stance". I have no obligation to call out all fallacious arguments, especially ones I didn't read before, or to repeat anything. I can point out any fallacious arguement I see as long as I can show how it is fallacious - as yours was. Ad hominem and being hypocritical doesn't help your arguements.



    There are Hundreds/thousands of IQ studies.
    Richard Lynn used over 600 with a sampling of over 800,000 people globally in his 2006 book.



    IOW, Apologetics.
    IOW: I have a high scientific standard.


    Your comparison Inapt, and for someone of your intelligence I would say.. Disingenuous.
    My post contains the 3 sizes and differentials which correlate to IQ.
    Not just abstract verbal leaps as you posted/needlessly muddied, mine contains Numbers where If 6>4:::: 4>2 ::: 6>2. We know this even without the middle number.
    That's why this section of your reply was longest. It took More BS to attempt to bury a simple fact.

    Additionally, from a Wiki mirror site, not completely updated/PCed yet.

    Your post contain probabilities, not simple numbers. Heuristic and probability are not bull****. People who cannot understand it (even PhD researchers and doctors) make mistakes reading statistics all the time. My arguement was genuine and correct - you couldn't point out anything wrong other than to attack me and use emotional appeals. It was the longest part because I actually believed that I could explain the concept of representative bias to you. Some posters don't get that benefit because I believe they are too narrow minded to understand why they are wrong. But obviously I'm wrong and that was a complete waste of time. You are already convinced that IQ is genetically determined despite the lack of rigorous scientific evidence. All the evidence provided by you from that article shows a statistically insignificant difference coupled with study design that do not properly control for other variables. Science is about evidence before faith, you already have faith in your theory, anything that contradict that you just dismiss as PC-bull****, even though no one here has said anything about scientifically proving that genes determine intelligence being morally or politically wrong - you just keep argueing with your own strawman.


    IQ researchers have corrected for variables, including socioeconomic ones. IQ remains consistent not only say, in Subsaharan Africa, or Rural china, but intercontinentally with the same populations in North America.
    Additionally your statement is wrong on a statistical basis. Not just that 1 SD is "insignificant", but if one looks at Asians vs Blacks we move comfortably over 1 SD.
    ie, Compare East Asian vs Subsaharans we move over 2 SDs. See the Lynn IQ Chart above.
    1 std deviation is insignificant for the current standard. If I'm wrong, show where it is accepted that 1 std deviation is statistically significant.

    Secondly do you understand how statistical testing is done? Please show me the article where you claimed they found 3 std deviation difference, or even this 2 std deviation difference instead of you just doing ad hoc arithmetic, and I'll interpret the results for myself, because I don't think you know how to interpret them properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Even an adoption study would add the new variable of the effects of adoption. Intelligence tests, IQ or otherwise, are very difficult to use as objective measurements of intelligence and mental capacity.
    I agree .. but its probably going to be the best you'll get (most variables are cut out and would likely be deemed sufficient - this is because adopting at birth allows for analysis of both genetic and environmental factors) - general practice in psychology is to allow for small possibly confounding variables - i.e. they state their conclusion and also add that there may be a possibility of confounding variables - it is up to other researchers to prove that said variables could cause a significant effect - i.e. researchers have to start somewhere - one research study cannot address all factors of a large issue in one study alone
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 09-16-11 at 09:39 PM.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    If everyone is equal then no one is diverse.
    So our diversity is at stake if we don't agree with you that blacks are less intelligent than whites? Oh I see.

    I better tell everyone I know that their nationalities, appearances, fashion style, music interests, economic backgrounds, academic interests, speaking patterns, political opinions, cultural ideas about manners, talents and so on are all at stake if we don't accept that races have unequal mental capacity.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Evidence abounds which invalidates your liberal creationist assumption that all of humanity has an identical intelligence profile.
    I'm not a Creationist. We are who we are account of evolution. Not once did I dispute evolution.

    I pointed correctly to the reality that when it comes to the broad category of race that the differences in terms of intelligence are insignificant and not meaningful. Insignificant is not the same thing as identical. Not meaningful is not the same thing as identical. The differences are not statistically significant. Unfortunately, as it is quite apparent from the confusion among those different terms, understanding of the concept of statistical signficance is lacking.

    The evidence in support of variance in intelligence is so damn broad it's amazing to behold and all of the different lines of evidence reinforce one another and all of the extremist environmentalist determinist explanations are not able to account for the variance.
    Ok, show me the 95% confidence intervals by race for all the major factors that explain a substantial portion of intelligence. If your claim is accurate, you should have no trouble doing so. I highly doubt that I'll see the myriad factors, the portion of intelligence that they explain, much less the 95% confidence levels by racial group. The empirical evidence, not unsubstantiated assertions, is what is required to support the claim.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    please post a data from a widely-accepted study showing the 95% confidence intervals for various measures of intelligence (not just IQ, a test that explains only a portion of it, but enough measures to explain most of intelligence) by racial group.
    And don't forget that the paper has to have been published in red ink, the type font must be Copperplate Gothic, there can be no more than two authors on the paper, and the paper must have a publication date that falls on a Tuesday.

    This tactics of specifying that proof must be delivered in very precise forms is one that I grew very tired of back in my undergrad school days when I was very active in TalkOrigins circles and was battling religious creationists. The same denialist tactics bind the religious creationist camp to the liberal creationist camp.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    I agree .. but its probably going to be the best you'll get (most variables are cut out and would likely be deemed sufficient - this is because adopting at birth allows for analysis of both genetic and environmental factors) - general practice in psychology is to allow for small possibly confounding variables - i.e. they state their conclusion and also add that there may be a possibility of confounding variables - it is up to other researchers to prove that said variables could cause a significant effect - i.e. researchers have to start somewhere - one research study cannot address all factors of a large issue in one study alone
    I agree it's the best we have - it's just not without flaws as you've already pointed out. I personally think that we'll never really get the issue resolved completely until environmental factors are equal - which, at best, will take a long time if that ever happens.

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