View Poll Results: Did evolution leave all races with equal mental and physical competency?

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    27 38.57%
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Thread: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

  1. #171
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    My post was made Merely to show donsutherland's claim of "99.9"%" was NOT definitive or even logical in being able to 'demonstrate' if there Could be IQ difference among humans.
    You're taking my statement into a much broader context than I ever intended. My point is not that evolution left everything identical among various groups of people, but that the broad differences are insignificant. Without doubt there are some differences. Moreover, human populations are continuing to evolve.

    However when one gets to broadly defined categories e.g., intelligence, as was a subject of this poll/thread, the differences are insignificant. Mean differences in IQ among the races are not sustained when one considers high confidence levels e.g., 95%. That a flawed study on IQ differences, flawed on account of deficiencies in statistical sampling that make it unreliable as to whether the samples adequately reflect the populations they purport to represent, has been cited does not change that, even if IQ were a perfect indicator of intelligence. But it isn't. IQ explains a portion of intelligence and that portion is less than 100%. Moreover, only a portion of IQ is heritable.

    In the whole scheme of things, the differences that resulted, to date, from evolution of humans are insignificant when it comes to broad attributes such as intelligence. If the poll were worded accurately, the correct answer based on the preponderance of scientific research would be that the races (a broad socially-constructed grouping, but a grouping nonetheless) are essentially equal in terms of "mental and physical competence (sic)." The differences among the broad groups of people cited for broad attributes listed are statistically insignificant.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    How do you define many? In the span of about 2,000-6,000 years Northern European whites went from 0% to 80%-98% levels of lactose tolerance while Asians and Native Americans are about 90%-95% lactose intolerant and Africans are between 60%-80% lactose intolerant.


    The frequencies of lactose maldigestion at ages 23 y, 6 y, and 910 y, respectively, are 0%, 0%, and 6% in white Americans; 18%, 30%, and 47% in Americans of Mexican descent; 25%, 45%, and 60% in black South Africans; ≈30%, 80%, and 85% in Chinese and Japanese; and 3055%, 90%, and >90% in Mestizos of Peru.
    The polling question had nothing to do with narrow, specific areas where significant differences exist. It dealt with very broad attributes (mental and physical "competence"). A bait-and-switch to the very specific issue of lactose maldigestion proves nothing, absolutely nothing, with respect to the broad questions raised in the poll. No one in this thread has argued that human populations are identical. Therefore, the existence of differences in narrow, highly-specific areas is irrelevant to the broader question.

  3. #173
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    I don't think anyone said we evolved exactly the same. I clearly disagree with the OP and his friends, but I did vote "No". I think they have a basic misconception of race and evolution.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    what I always find amusing is that people have no problem admitting that environment has affected physical evolution, but if you dare suggest that environment might have affected mental evolution you are suddenly a flaming racist.
    well...yes.

    without any good evidence that can be replicated, that Evolution has left some races more intelligent than others, all we have is racism.

    EDIT: I'd love to see a comparison of 10,000 middle-class European kids, 10,000 middle-class African kids, 10,000 middle-class Asian kids, give them all the exact same IQ test, and see what we get.

    unfortunately, no such tests exist.

    the ONLY way one can honestly argue that blacks are dumber..or whites are smarter..is by comparing thousands of kids from each race, having them ALL be of the SAME socio-economic status, having gone through the SAME level and competency of education.

    any other test is BS.
    Last edited by Thunder; 09-16-11 at 08:43 PM.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    well...yes.without any good evidence that can be replicated, that Evolution has left some races more intelligent than others, all we have is racism.
    Prove it's racism. Prove I'm a black racist because I question the assumption that all races were left with equal overall intelligence.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Prove it's racism. Prove I'm a black racist because I question the assumption that all races were left with equal overall intelligence.
    read my above post.

    the only way anyone can intelligently and honestly argue that one race may be intellectually inferior to another, is through a very thorough and complex system of testing thousands of students ALL from the SAME educational and economic backgrounds.

    anything else, is crap.

    has such a test been done yet?

    no? then let us know when it happens.

    and BTW, African-Americans are a VERY poor selection to represent the "African" race, as almost all African-Americans have some European & Native American lineage.
    Last edited by Thunder; 09-16-11 at 08:46 PM.

  7. #177
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    You're taking my statement into a much broader context than I ever intended. My point is not that evolution left everything identical among various groups of people, but that the broad differences are insignificant. Without doubt there are some differences. Moreover, human populations are continuing to evolve.
    You repeat this hollow claim of "insignificant".
    Yet you partially quote a Meaty post in which I show it IS 'significant.

    Moreover, it's not only statistically significant, it's Nationally/Ethnically significant, IQ and the Wealth of Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and of course Personally significant. IQ Positively Correlated with Life outcome.
    It doesn't get any More "significant" than that.
    One need only glance at countries/continents as well as within our own to see confirmation.


    Quote Originally Posted by donald

    However when one gets to broadly defined categories e.g., intelligence, as was a subject of this poll/thread, the differences are insignificant. Mean differences in IQ among the races are not sustained when one considers high confidence levels e.g., 95%. That a flawed study on IQ differences, flawed on account of deficiencies in statistical sampling that make it unreliable as to whether the samples adequately reflect the populations they purport to represent, has been cited does not change that, even if IQ were a perfect indicator of intelligence. But it isn't. IQ explains a portion of intelligence and that portion is less than 100%. Moreover, only a portion of IQ is heritable.
    GobbledeeGook.

    Quote Originally Posted by donald
    ....are essentially equal in terms of "mental and physical competence (sic)." The differences among the broad groups of people cited for broad attributes listed are statistically insignificant.
    I'm afraid not. Even allowing for the Fudgy/nebulous/meaningless "essentially", it's wrong and is spelled in in the numbers of Thousands of IQ studies and again Confirmed by Personal/Intra-country/National/Continental outcomes.
    "Essentially" Would be useful in saying we're smarter than dogs, but Meaninglessly motivated PC for the purposes of this discussion of Intra-specie IQ.
    Last edited by mbig; 09-16-11 at 08:51 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Yes folks, if you compare a truly random sample of IQ tests of blacks, Asians, and whites in the USA..it is likely you wil get results that suggests blacks are dumber than whites..and whites are dumber than Asians.

    But that's because random testing does not take into account the higher percentages of single-family homes, poverty, poor education and other disadvantages that African Americans face.

    The ONLY way one can argue that whites are smart than blacks..and Asians are smarter than whites..is by comparing the IQ exams of thousands of kids from each race, from the EXACT SAME socio-economic & educational status. It would also help to have their parents also have grown up in the same socio-economic status.

    ONLY then, can you have a real good idea if any race may be genetically smarter than the others..or dumber.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    You repat this hollow claim of "insignificant".
    Yet you partially quote a Meaty post in which I show it IS 'significant.
    No one here has provided even a single credible study that shows that human intelligence among the racial groups (question in the poll) is statistically significant. Differences in means do not mean that the differences are statistically significant. One needs the standard deviation and then the appropriate confidence level. No one has furnished such evidence. Without such evidence, the meat is not present.

    That differences in mean IQ scores (just one measure that explains some of Intelligence) have been posted is incomplete information. That one has repeatedly cited the flawed Jansen study that purports to a conclusion despite sampling problems does not furnish that data. That numerous Wiki links have been provided does not furnish that data--Wiki is not peer-reviewed for starters. That some have swapped very narrow, highly-specific areas of difference as a false proxy for claiming statistically significant differences in intelligence (not IQ, but intelligence) exist for the various racial groups proves nothing. Incomplete data and junk science don't cut it.

    Since you seem so confident in statistically significant--and statistical significance is not the same thing as differences among means--in intelligence, please post a data from a widely-accepted study showing the 95% confidence intervals for various measures of intelligence (not just IQ, a test that explains only a portion of it, but enough measures to explain most of intelligence) by racial group. If every one has a difference that is statistically significant, then one can make the case. To date, no credible work has been published to support such a claim.

    Anything else, despite the insults some are throwing around, is wrong.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Thunder, is there any empirical proof to show that evolution left all races with equal, overall intelligence? You say it's so difficult to prove that there isn't equality, yet then you assume that evolution left it all equal. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, and there may not even be an absence. To say that one side does not have any proof, according to you, does not in itself merit that you must believe the other side as true. That said, there can be no hatred or racism for asking such questions... or perhaps it is in the eye of the beholder?

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