View Poll Results: Did evolution leave all races with equal mental and physical competency?

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Thread: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

  1. #121
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why do you limit the answers to Yes or No?
    ...Post #9.

  2. #122
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I am going to take your example here.

    I assume you chose the Chinese because they are a developing civilization and appear to be quite intelligent, and I also assume you chose the Aboriginees of Australia because they appear to do nothing but play with rocks or something like that (no heavy thinking).

    If you take a chinese newborn and take him to live with the Aboriginees and you take a baby from Austrailia and raise him in China, what will the outcome be?

    I think intelligence is fostered and groomed from day one, and if you are in a society like China, where you need a strong brain to survive, the child will come out smarter and able to solve problems.

    If all you teach the child to do is gather food and fight, I don't think he will do very well with a spelling test.
    A little history

    China is not a developing civilization, its culture and civilization goes back far beyond that of any existing European civilization. The Germanic tribes were still nomadic tribes for a good thousand years when China had developed a writen language and had formed agricultural communities. The Chinese civilization would at the time of the Roman civilization would easily compare in size, scope and development. Unlike the Roman civilization the Chinese one from then still has a large influence on the Chinese civilization today. The begining of the Chinese civilization if I recall correctly would have been around the 800 BC period, before any real development in Europe outside of the Hellenic region


    Side note and the likely reason for your misconception


    China had the largest economy in the world and was probably the largest manufacturer the world of goods up untill sometime in the 1800s. China which tends to go through periods of self imposed isolation did not partake in the industrial revolution which put it behind the 8 ball when it comes to world power in the 1800-1900s for the most part. Now that China is in a more open phase it is taking the usefull ideas from the nonchinese world and is in the process of regaining its traditional place as one of the worlds powers. The Opium Wars was the UK pushing China to allow Opium imports as a means to balance the trade between the British Empire and China
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 09-15-11 at 08:27 PM.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Exactly. This paper was not controversial nor was it faulty. The critics who published in the same issue raised concerns and then the authors responded to the concerns. It shouldn't have to be pointed out put perhaps it would help because you don't seem to grasp that just because a concern is raised that doesn't mean that the concern is fairly raising a point rather than misinterpreting a point, it doesn't mean that the concern is correct, it doesn't mean that the concern represents a stronger point of view, etc. A concern that is raised is not the equivalent of a falsification.

    Thirty years ago, before the rise of genomics, the environment only extremists ruled the day and the hereditarians were being attacked all the time. Now the tables are turned and the nurture side is being pummeled because the hereditarians are drawing on multiple reinforcing points from a variety of fields. The concerns that the critics raised were answered by the proponents.



    Learn to keep your Pavlovian attack response in check - if you want to debate me then stop and think about what you've written before you hit the "Submit Reply" button. I don't care how sloppy you are with your thinking when you respond to other people but when you direct attacks at me those punches better hit me. That's when I'll take you seriously. At the very least be more precise in your language. Your habit of sloppy thinking makes it difficult to take you seriously.
    So is it controversial. Well, first stop is usually Wiki, which agrees that it is controversial:

    Race and intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The review article "Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability" by Rushton and Jensen was published in 2005.[19] The article was followed by a series of responses, some in support, some critical.[20][21] Richard Nisbett, another psychologist who had also commented at the time, later included an amplified version of his critique as part of the book Intelligence and How to Get It: Why Schools and Cultures Count (2009).[22] Rushton and Jensen in 2010 made a point-for-point reply to this and again summarized the hereditarian position.[23]
    Hey look, some people find it wrong. Responding to something does not make you right and them wrong, or else I have just proven you wrong simply by responding. This is what we call elementary logic, which seems to be beyond you. Maybe you did not realize this, but just saying you are right does not make it so, and yet because the authors said they are right, you assume that means they are.

    Then of course we have http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=...2005-03637-002

    Oh look, it turns out people actually do disagree with your source, people with knowledge in the field. I can happily dig up more, but despite your claims, the paper is in fact controversial, with many disagreeing with it. In fact, despite all your ad homs and attempts to hide the fact, you have only shown that in fact I am right, it is controversial. If you would take time to stop and think before you hit the submit reply button, you might not make these elementary mistakes(see, I can make mindless ad homs just like you too).
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #124
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Let's make a deal - I won't tutor you in physics and you don't tutor me on population genetics. OK?
    Well, you showed him...

    Actually, you showed him that you could not counter his post and had to resort to, once again, misdirection in an attempt to draw attention away from it. By the way, Tucker in fact does know more on the topic than you do, as we have seen numberous times. Hell, I know more on the topic than you, and I just casually read things.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #125
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    It is about you because you're making stuff up. You saying that there are "experts in the field who disagree with the methodology and conclusions" is unsupported. I'd love to read these idiots who disagree with the methodology of a SURVEY PAPER which has no methodology - that would be a hoot to read.
    It's idiotic to believe that a "survey paper" has no "methodology". The choice to use a survey is itself a methodology. In constructing and interpreting the survey, there must be a methodology or the paper is not scientific.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 09-15-11 at 08:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  6. #126
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hey look, some people find it wrong. Responding to something does not make you right and them wrong, or else I have just proven you wrong simply by responding. This is what we call elementary logic, which seems to be beyond you. Maybe you did not realize this, but just saying you are right does not make it so, and yet because the authors said they are right, you assume that means they are.
    All you're doing is pointing to the articles that were published in that special issue:


    Rushton, J. P., & Jensen, A. R. (2005). Thirty years of research on race differences in cognitive ability. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 235-294.

    Sternberg, R. J. (2005). There are no public-policy implications: A reply to Rushton and Jensen (2005). Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 295-301.

    Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Heredity, environment, and race differences in IQ: A commentary on Rushton and Jensen (2005). Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 302-310.

    Gottfredson, L. S. (2005). What if the hereditarian hypothesis is true? Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 311-319.

    Suzuki, L., & Aronson, J. (2005). The cultural malleability of intelligence and its impact on the racial/ethnic hierarchy. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 320-327.

    Rushton, J. P., & Jensen, A. R (2005). Wanted: More race realism, less moralistic fallacy. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 328-336.


    Oh look, it turns out people actually do disagree with your source, people with knowledge in the field.
    I already noted that this issue featured dissenters. Just because someone dissents doesn't mean that their dissent is valid. Go take an evening and read the entire debate and see how weak the criticisms are and how they are addressed by the last article.

  7. #127
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    All you're doing is pointing to the articles that were published in that special issue:

    Rushton, J. P., & Jensen, A. R. (2005). Thirty years of research on race differences in cognitive ability. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 235-294.

    Sternberg, R. J. (2005). There are no public-policy implications: A reply to Rushton and Jensen (2005). Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 295-301.

    Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Heredity, environment, and race differences in IQ: A commentary on Rushton and Jensen (2005). Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 302-310.

    Gottfredson, L. S. (2005). What if the hereditarian hypothesis is true? Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 311-319.

    Suzuki, L., & Aronson, J. (2005). The cultural malleability of intelligence and its impact on the racial/ethnic hierarchy. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 320-327.

    Rushton, J. P., & Jensen, A. R (2005). Wanted: More race realism, less moralistic fallacy. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 328-336.




    I already noted that this issue featured dissenters. Just because someone dissents doesn't mean that their dissent is valid. Go take an evening and read the entire debate and see how weak the criticisms are and how they are addressed by the last article.
    Just because some one says something is true does not mean it is. See how that works? Just because you believe it is true does not mean that people with honest to god knowledge in the field believe it is true. So far your only response to criticism has been to say "well, they said it was true", which is not a very good argument.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #128
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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Well, you showed him...

    Actually, you showed him that you could not counter his post and had to resort to, once again, misdirection in an attempt to draw attention away from it. By the way, Tucker in fact does know more on the topic than you do, as we have seen numberous times. Hell, I know more on the topic than you, and I just casually read things.
    Yeah, ok. You guys go on believing that drift and mutation are factors apart from evolution. You're smart, just like Fredo. Keep telling yourself that.


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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Yeah, ok. You guys go on believing that drift and mutation are factors apart from evolution. You're smart, just like Fredo. Keep telling yourself that.
    And now you are misrepresenting what he said(Hint, he said: "While the all play a role in evolution, they are not evolution"), and throwing an ad hom in again. Dishonesty along with a need to throw out random ad homs is not doing your position any good.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?

    Moderator's Warning:
    Did evolution leave all races equal in terms of mental and physical competence?RiverDad, stop making things personal and attacking other users.
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