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Thread: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I've defended you in the past, by why in the holy hell must you make EVERY SINGLE POINT about race? It is neither pertinent nor relevant to my point in any way.
    Anytime international comparisons are noted the implication is always that it is the system of medical care which is the primary determinant of patient outcomes. You posted a link to 'Cancer Survival Rates Vary by Country" - well those survival rates are not just determined by how much medical care and the sophistication of that medical care that was delivered to the patient.

    So, this data that I provided actually makes your case stronger because the US has some population groups with higher incidences of heart disease or more aggressive forms of breast cancer and despite this manages to deliver better survival rates compared to other countries with populations which exhibit less aggressive forms of breast cancer or heart disease.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    The target is obvious:

    Make the argument that I should be forced to provide you with goods and services that you, yourself, cannot afford.

    While doing so, be sure to address the fact that while you have the right to life, you are not entitled to the means necessary to exercise that right.
    Alright, I will make that argument. Because, see, we live in this thing called a society, and sometimes it's beneficial to everyone for all the members of a society to pitch in for the common good. Because, see, the common good includes you.
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Alright, I will make that argument. Because, see, we live in this thing called a society, and sometimes it's beneficial to everyone for all the members of a society to pitch in for the common good. Because, see, the common good includes you.
    people that pitch in do so voluntarily, which I have no problem with.

    the problem is, you aren't asking all members of society to pitch in. you are forcing a very small percentage to handle it all because they can.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The above has to be the biggest load of bull**** I've ever seen. It's not surprising there isn't even a citation for it. It's simply untrue. 100 years ago if you had money, you had no healthcare. That's the way it has been for the overwhelming majority of modern medicine's existence. Want a source? All you have to do is ask me the name of the country in question and I'll find 10-20 books on the subject.
    the books will likely be authored by Walter Duranty though

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    people that pitch in do so voluntarily, which I have no problem with.

    the problem is, you aren't asking all members of society to pitch in. you are forcing a very small percentage to handle it all because they can.

    That might have something to do with them having most of the money.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    That might have something to do with them having most of the money.
    it might have more to do with making it easy to buy votes when you pit a large percent of the population against a very small percentage.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Alright, I will make that argument. Because, see, we live in this thing called a society, and sometimes it's beneficial to everyone for all the members of a society to pitch in for the common good. Because, see, the common good includes you.

    and I would argue, how does it benefit the common good to allow the weakest members of society to artificially survive? we should take a cue from nature. look at a herd of deer, the weakest and the old and the sick fall prey to predators and keep the herd at a manageable size. when you remove the predators, the herd expands and then all suffer due to lack of food caused by over grazing.

    that is exactly what we have done in this country. the resources of this planet of finite, and since most people are either too stupid or too short sighted to see the value of space exploration, and conservation will only go so far. many of the problems we face today are caused by the simple fact that there are just too damn many people.
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    No, we shouldn't. We aren't savages, and we aren't that desperate as a society.

    Maybe we've forgotten what health care insurance IS: it is insurance. The idea behind insurance is, if something drastic happens the insurance company pays so you don't lose everything and go into debt.

    If you need a lifesaving proceedure and have no insurance, you get the proceedure. You may end up in bankruptcy and debt, but at least you're still alive. You can still work, get your finances straightened out, and get on with your life... none of which you could do if you were dead.

    We aren't primitive tribesmen living on the edge of starvation. We don't push the old and the weak out into the wilderness to die alone, and we shouldn't let someone die in pain in the waiting room of a hospital just because they have no insurance.

    That sounds good goshin and in principle I agree with you...however, your not taking into account just how much these procedures cost vs what the bottom half of america earns...impossible to pay that is the whole problem...people that cant afford insurance premiums certainly cant afford to pay the whole tab in the end....I dont believe you can claim medical on bankruptcy anymore and make it go away like you used too before the law change...I could be wrong...

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You don't understand the argument and it's not really worth my time explaining it all.

    I very well understand the argument harry...but lke you said its not woth the time going back and forth...

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    people that pitch in do so voluntarily, which I have no problem with.

    the problem is, you aren't asking all members of society to pitch in. you are forcing a very small percentage to handle it all because they can.
    Well, hey. If income inequality in this country wasn't so obscene, the tax base would be a lot fairer, too. If a very small percentage takes all the money, well, they're gonna have to pay more taxes, too.
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