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Thread: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the spartans put the weak, sick, feeble and infirm out in the elements to die....


    let natural selection do its job
    Spartans were fascists and believed in quite a few other things, like no personal freedoms or civil liberties. I love it when Social Darwinists are born into a society ordered according to humanist principles but are so ignorant of how it has benefited them (as well as its intrinsic goodness) that they freely troll around whatever depravity enters their head.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 09-14-11 at 02:01 AM.
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    I find it interesting that in the end, it doesn't look like there is a solution that could fit a fiscal and moral standard. While we are still able to, I believe we should do what we can to encourage people to stay healthy and avoid risks if they cannot afford to pay for them. With increasing lifespan and reduced births in modern times, there WILL be a point where it is not feasible to support our current thinking. We need to get creative. I am not willing to let the randomness and turmoil of the stock market to decide health policy, but government should not be the end all.

    I have little respect for those so selfish that they are not willing to help out a neighbor in need with a penny of their own money. With a VERY basic well run health plan run by the government (is it possibe?), a person at least has access to life saving care if needed. Ron Paul's point of "helping those in need" is lost when corporate greed, excessive reliance on technology (A $300 visit so they could use the machine that goes "PING! to tell you that you have the flu.) and an arrogance seems to be expanding through the practice. If you want more, then that's where private should do best. I don't find spending a little bit of money to help out my fellow man/woman to be an affront to my liberty. I certainly find it more palatable than trillions spent on war and killing foreigners to implement Americanism.

    As much as everyone is trying to ignore it, the shifting age groups will force us to rethink about population issues and even how we treat the elderly. We will not find consensus if the question is "Should 90 year olds get kidney transplants?" To be "fruitful and multiply" is also no longer a good answer. Somehow, the young minority will need to support the elderly majority. Good luck humanity.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkskeptic View Post
    I have little respect for those so selfish that they are not willing to help out a neighbor in need with a penny of their own money. With a VERY basic well run health plan run by the government (is it possibe?), a person at least has access to life saving care if needed. Ron Paul's point of "helping those in need" is lost when corporate greed, excessive reliance on technology (A $300 visit so they could use the machine that goes "PING! to tell you that you have the flu.) and an arrogance seems to be expanding through the practice. If you want more, then that's where private should do best. I don't find spending a little bit of money to help out my fellow man/woman to be an affront to my liberty. I certainly find it more palatable than trillions spent on war and killing foreigners to implement Americanism.
    I don't either, but where should it end? When someone is in need and you help them, that's great. When they've got their hand out because people have stepped up so many times that they think the world owes them money, what do you do then? There has to be a time when people need to be held accountable for themselves. When does that time come?
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Do you agree with Ron Paul's POV, that the uninsured should be denied life-saving medical care?
    The strawman presented here has been addressed..

    Mandating life-savng care for those who cannot pay means that people are forced to provide goods and services to others w/o compenation and/or forced to pay for goods/services that they did not receive.

    Your life is not my responsibility.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't either, but where should it end? When someone is in need and you help them, that's great. When they've got their hand out because people have stepped up so many times that they think the world owes them money, what do you do then? There has to be a time when people need to be held accountable for themselves. When does that time come?
    Of course. We all need to get creative and work on an accountability scheme that works. I agree that we need to stop somewhere. Same with any other program in existence. The thing is, I can't bring myself to think that a hardline stance of "don't take anything from me, ever" is right either. A better accountability scheme could come first, in order to calibrate where the line needs to be drawn. For suicide attempts, negligent self injury and such, I feel the line needs to be drawn differently than for birth control meds and routine physicals. There was also an era when someone would say "Yup, It's my time..."

    My take is that the cost of medical care needs to come down. This may mean less care for some and lesser care for others until we make it cheaper, or reach Star Trek levels of technology and social programs.

    Too many are sadly unfamiliar with the concept of consensus decision making; in a world with so many people and opinions, I don't think we can afford to think in black and white anymore.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Let them die, then the freeloaders could contribute to society as soylent green for the poor. Unbelievable.
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't either, but where should it end? When someone is in need and you help them, that's great. When they've got their hand out because people have stepped up so many times that they think the world owes them money, what do you do then? There has to be a time when people need to be held accountable for themselves. When does that time come?
    It should be held through mandated universal health care. Since as a society we demonstrate great reluctance to accept the dire consequences of for-profit health care on incapable or unlucky individuals, everyone should be compelled to pay into a common fund as a custom of our laws.

    If you want to somehow maintain a privatized health care service as an accessory to that, go ahead.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 09-14-11 at 03:06 PM.
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    It should be held through mandated universal health care. Since as a society we demonstrate great reluctance to accept the dire consequences of for-profit health care on incapable or unlucky individuals, everyone should be compelled to pay into a common fund as a custom of our laws.
    Make the argument that I should be forced to provide you with goods and services that you, yourself, cannot afford.
    You have the right to life. You are not entitled to the means necessary to exercise that right.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Make the argument that I should be forced to provide you with goods and services that you, yourself, cannot afford.
    You have the right to life. You are not entitled to the means necessary to exercise that right.
    First, this is not a one-way street; you'd be cared for as well.

    Second, it's patenetly obvious that universal care is more economical, more humane and gets better overall results.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post

    First, this is not a one-way street; you'd be cared for as well.
    Second, it's patenetly obvious that universal care is more economical, more humane and gets better overall results.
    Neither of these statement answer the challenge. Please try again.

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