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Thread: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Nice rant. Completely unrelated to my analogy, though.

    How long to do wait at the DPS? After filling out a form the size of a postcard and gathering your birth certificate and SS card, how long are you made to wait until you get your license? How about the tax office? The DMV? Ever had to deal with the Fish and Wildlife department? What about the IRS? These are all programs and departments devised entirely by the government to regulate and control actions legislated by the government. And they're all bound up in red tape, lines, waiting lists, untrained, unprofessional, incapable staff, and tons upon tons of misinformation.

    So you can blame everybody but the government for government inefficiency....but it's just more party-line nonsense designed to villify the people you like the least. Even if you consider the parties you mentioned above...guess what? The government decided whether or not those parties had any influence. So they're still the ones with their pants down here.

    We can't even bid on a government job without jumping through a ridiculous number of hoops, and all we do is clean carpets. So I'm sorry if I don't fall into lock-step with the "government is our savior" bullhockey spewed as a justification for handing them the reigns and ability to train, regulate, monitor, and select the guy who measures out my anesthesia before surgery.
    Government only has the powers that we give it. They work for us. If we view government as anything besides our employees, then we have screwed up royally.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Do you agree with Ron Paul's POV, that the uninsured should be denied life-saving medical care?
    As others have already pointed out this isn't Paul's position. I however will answer your question as you presented it. Yes, they should be allowed to die. When this becomes known we will have a society with sky high insurance converge.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    As others have already pointed out this isn't Paul's position. I however will answer your question as you presented it. Yes, they should be allowed to die. When this becomes known we will have a society with sky high insurance converge.
    And lots of dead poor people.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    We have the highest cost of care and the most bloated medical system in the western world. Clearly what we have is not working efficiently or providing quality care.
    Does the US also suffer from the problem of having the largest average home size in the world?





    Housing and health care are both superior goods. What this means is that as people become wealthier they want to consume more superior goods. Inferior goods are items which are consumed less when people become wealthier, say for instance, Raman Noodles or Kraft Dinner. There probably aren't many billionaires around who have a hankering for a nice plate of gooey "cheesy" Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.

    Our health care is some of the most expensive in the world because we, as a society, are pretty damn rich, and we spend money to buy ever better quality of care. Our home sizes are larger now than they used to be in the past and the quality of fixtures in our homes (granite countertops in mid-range homes) are also better because we are richer today than our parents and grandparents were back in the day and the homes are larger than those in other countries because we have more money to spend on housing than citizens of other countries.

    People object to universal health care for philosophical reasons. It could have the potential to actually save us money.
    It could save us money by implementing rationing. That's how it works. If we implemented Canada's standards on the use of MRI machines, we'd have to get rid of something on the order of 8,400 of our 10,000+ machines in order to match Canada's per capita level of MRI machines. Sending fewer people for diagnostic testing will cut our expenses on MRI screening, so too will rationing the care such that every machine is utilized to full capacity, which means more people having to go for a screening at 11:30 at night after waiting 4 months for an appointment.

    These are the trade-offs - if you like getting your MRI test done with a day or two so that your physician can act on that information in a timely manner then you have to pay for that convenience and if you don't mind a physician declaring that your symptoms don't meet the new conditions that are imposed to limit MRI screenings, then you'll save money.

  5. #45
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And lots of dead poor people.
    No. Bare bones catastrophic insurance is within the meas of all poor people. The issue becomes one of priorities. We see this with the stories of families who are earning $90,000 per year and choosing to remain uninsured. They can afford it but they think that there are better ways for them to spend their money. The same rationale applies to people in poverty - if health care is important to you then you will find a way to pay for care that saves your life. Catastrophic care is an insurable event - catastrophic accidents don't happen to people all of the time, in fact, they are pretty rare events in people's lives, precisely what insurance is designed to cover.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Explain how this system of universal healthcare will be paid for, who get's the services (because there will always be limited resources) and where will be the economic incentives for reduction of cost and improvement of health care?

    If you believe in "universal anything" you obviously don't understand economics.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Excellent now as an individual you can determine for yourself whether the cost of insurance outweighs the increased probability of death. BTW everyone is 100% likely to die just depends when and how.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulterkampf View Post
    Excellent now as an individual you can determine for yourself whether the cost of insurance outweighs the increased probability of death. BTW everyone is 100% likely to die just depends when and how.
    Some conditions are treatable with a fairly high acceptability of morbidity. Such as in heart disease a transplant can change one's life.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the spartans put the weak, sick, feeble and infirm out in the elements to die....


    let natural selection do its job
    It would be kinder and more efficient to simply make assisted suicide and euthanasia legal. Are you in favor of that?

  10. #50
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    It would be kinder and more efficient to simply make assisted suicide and euthanasia legal. Are you in favor of that?
    Why yes I am.

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