Page 36 of 38 FirstFirst ... 263435363738 LastLast
Results 351 to 360 of 380

Thread: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

  1. #351
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,647
    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    My mom received her care in a teaching hospital, so she isn’t dead weight, she provided valuable practical experience
    How much did the care end up costing? Not costing her, but total?

    Whatever of that amount she did not personally pay was transferred to someone. Whether other patients, policyholders, taxpayers, the students in the form of tuition fees, etc. Someone shouldered the portion of the overall cost that your mom didnt pay, and it's this endless shoveling of personal costs onto the collective that conservatives tend to oppose.

  2. #352
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    How much did the care end up costing? Not costing her, but total?

    Whatever of that amount she did not personally pay was transferred to someone. Whether other patients, policyholders, taxpayers, the students in the form of tuition fees, etc. Someone shouldered the portion of the overall cost that your mom didnt pay, and it's this endless shoveling of personal costs onto the collective that conservatives tend to oppose.
    even with insurance, the portion of the overall cost that you don't pay out of your pocket is still shoveled onto the collective (ie the other policy holders with your insurance company).

    unless you pay cash money for every dime of your medical treatment, someone somewhere is helping to subsidize your care, either directly or indirectly.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  3. #353
    cookies crumble
    ARealConservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-21-17 @ 08:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,518

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    How much did the care end up costing? Not costing her, but total?

    Whatever of that amount she did not personally pay was transferred to someone. Whether other patients, policyholders, taxpayers, the students in the form of tuition fees, etc. Someone shouldered the portion of the overall cost that your mom didnt pay, and it's this endless shoveling of personal costs onto the collective that conservatives tend to oppose.

    I understand your point, but there is another consideration here

    My mom did something unheard of in the health care market. She price shopped. If more people did this, we would see a drastic reduction in the price of medicine.

  4. #354
    Holy Crap!
    Red Crow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hawaii, USA
    Last Seen
    12-06-15 @ 10:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,429

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    really? i'm not lazy and i don't want anything handed to me. so i guess you couold say your post was a lie, right?
    If you really are that way you describe yourself then you are not a Liberal, so if I were you I change my lean to Conservative and that would be the REAL you.
    Catch me if you can.

  5. #355
    Educator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    12-06-15 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,226

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's the whole idea behind the conservative plan for the health insurance mandate. I think UHC is much more practical.
    I don't feel much need to defend the Romney, Brown, The Heritage Foundation and certainly not Nixon or Bush. But, can you present a primary source that proves who supported a FEDERAL individual mandate?

    Here is Moffitt's (Heritage Foundation's health care wonk) position on Massachusetts proggram. He finds it a mixed bag and recommends some parts to other states seeking to reform, not to the federal government.

    The Massachusetts Health Plan An Update and Lessons for Other States

  6. #356
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Public means others can read and respond, but our conversation has nothing to do with what others said previously.
    We are not in a vacuum, we are on a public forum that has been discussing "Should we allow the uninsured to die." Here are some of the related comments in this discussion:


    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die? Hell, we should assist them.
    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I'm sorry, there is nothing in the consitution that says you have a right to medical treatment.
    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Medical treatment is a product. Nobody has the right to a product.
    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    "Covering everyone" means forcing people to pay for goods and services rendered to someone else.
    This is nothing more than involutary servitude, a form of slavery.
    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    how does keeping dead weight alive help the country's well being?
    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    It places an artificial burden on limited resources, and thusly weakens the species as a whole.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No, I mean that we don't respect people's decision to go without insurance and we don't hold them accountable to that decision. That is our fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    It's no so much 'respecting' the decision, but holding them responsible for it.
    The current state of affairs breeds irresponsibility as people can make irresponsible decisions and not have to suffer the consequences for doing so.
    Once you remove the consequence from poor decision making, you eliminate the impetus to not make poor decisions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    this is because we hold no one accountable for the decision not to be insured
    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Why do you think your life is worth more than someone else's 2 days in a coal mine?




    They need to see a bigger picture of what people provide. My mom received her care in a teaching hospital, so she isn’t dead weight, she provided valuable practical experience
    I agree! Most of the people without health insurance are working, contributing members of society. You've made my point better than I could have. Perhaps your fellow conservatives above will take note. BTW, I'm glad your Mom got the treatment she needed!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #357
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    14,803
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    This is, in fact, news to certain people here.
    You don't GET more conservative than the Heritage Foundation. THEY thought it was a good idea, or wanted it to look that way. WAY too much deliberately deceptive comes out of that stink tank.

    Perhaps they were laying a trap. Or establishing a "frame" for some other agenda.

    But THEY did come up with it. And the ARE conservative. So what was wrong with it when they did?.

    Have they retracted/modified their position?

    RINO is a copout far too often. PR trickery. Fallacy carpet bombing.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  8. #358
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No, hospital care. The uninsured are treated throughout hospitals. Whatever their medical need. Not just ERs. That's "do no harm" for you.
    Which does not include preventative care which puts the patient at higher risk and ultimately results in higher costs for everyone.

    And they'd still hit up the ER with public coverage. ERs find answers quick, whereas clinic doctors can have long waitlists. And we could only expect as much or more of that with UHC.
    Show me any country with UHC that pays more for health care than the US.

    That's not why they die. People die due to injuries or medical problems. "Lack of health care" is not a cause of death.
    You are mistaken. 18,000 deaths blamed on lack of insurance

    A government can only control costs by rationing in some fashion or another. If it doesn't ration, costs can float as high as they want to.
    Insurance companies ration health care too, that is why 50 million people can't afford health insurance. We have less access to fully health care for all our people than any other industrialized country.

    So ASSUMING we go ahead and destroy choice and socialize the whole system, the question will become about how government will ration, or how quickly it'll destroy our financial going concern trying NOT to.
    What choice do those who can't afford health insurance have for full health care?

    So how shall we ration? What care shall be denied, and to whom? We gotta answer this at some point. No it doesn't. We could spend all month discussing the myriad differences between the US and country x, y or z.
    Hopefully not the way we have been rationing it, where only the rich have the option for receiving full health care. Talk with Bowerbird here about how well UHC works in Australia.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #359
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    I don't feel much need to defend the Romney, Brown, The Heritage Foundation and certainly not Nixon or Bush. But, can you present a primary source that proves who supported a FEDERAL individual mandate?

    Here is Moffitt's (Heritage Foundation's health care wonk) position on Massachusetts proggram. He finds it a mixed bag and recommends some parts to other states seeking to reform, not to the federal government.

    The Massachusetts Health Plan An Update and Lessons for Other States
    What???? You say you can't defend the Heritage Foundation, and then you list them as a reference??? Please explain further what you mean please.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #360
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    14,803
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It is noted that you are further to the right than the Heritage Foundation.
    Wouldn't that mean hes coming up on the backside of the left?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

Page 36 of 38 FirstFirst ... 263435363738 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •