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Thread: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I don't want to be argumentative Tessa and I'm very sorry your experience has been so terrible, but Medicaid is administered through each state, yes? I know they must conform to federal guide lines, but maybe that is the difference in how benefits and care are approved and administered?
    All/most entitlements are managed and processed at a state level, but they're still federally legislated, mandated, and created programs. The SS checks I used to cash for recipients were signed by the state comptroller of Texas. The guideline which essentially rationed my care came from the federal level, devised by a group of federally-selected "professionals" and submitted to the federal legislature for inclusion in a federally mandated and funded program.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    I think if any health care project should exist from the government then it should only entitle children and soldiers. Health care is a socialist program that gets people to conform to the subsidy and learn how to live off it. There is no mechanism in these programs to efficiently get people back to "societal normalcy", this means getting a job, paying your own bills with your own money. A lot of people that get on these programs, like health care from the state, or Welfare, unemployment benefits, subsidized housing, these people learn how to get every drop. They sometimes have no choice, they're are trapped because it's set up to be a switch, you either have it or you don't. So to get off subsidies becomes damn near impossible.
    I have personally received just about all of these subsidies and worked my 'tukas' off to be independent. 13 years later and I'm back on subsidies, but only 1. I won't accept state health benefits. It seems ...like I'm cheating or doing something wrong. And I would oppose a socialized program that would mandate me to have health care, unless this program was a stepped system that allows people to get off the subsidy and onto their own healthcare.
    But the fact remains that we need to know about everything else, and talk about everything else that coincides with this subject like welfare and other things of that nature.
    We literally can not debate about the use of one socialized system that is part of a larger system. If we can't see the big picture there is no point to debating health care, and how or why or if it should happen. Period.
    Last edited by KaptainKraK; 09-13-11 at 06:54 PM. Reason: incomplete thought

  3. #23
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    I think the more pressing question is about allowing old people to die. 40% of medicare dollars go to the last month of the patients life. We spend huge amounts of money on incredibly expensive treatments with a minimal chance of success that would only buy a few more months of life in the best case scenario. If you are going to start sacrificing people for healthcare dollars, you should start with biggest expenses that bring in the least benefit.

    Frankly, I would be downright ashamed to enact such draconian measure at the moment. The only reason every American doesn't have healthcare is because our current system is the most wasteful and inefficient system in the world. We spend more 142% more money than anyone else per capita, and yet can't cover 16% of our population. There is no shortage of healthcare dollars, only people willing to avoid pissing said money away.

  4. #24
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    [QUOTE=Pinkie;1059794318]Do you agree with Ron Paul's POV, that the uninsured should be denied life-saving medical care?[/QUOT

    Ive always said Paul is nuts and the more he talks the more nuts I believe he is

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I don't see anything here that says he wants to deny health care to the uninsured.

    From his book:


    As for last night, his exact words were:

    Ron Paul: That's what freedom is all about: taking your own risks. This whole idea that you need a single payer to take care of everybody....
    Blitzer: So are you saying society should let him die?
    Ron Paul: No. I practiced medicine, uh....before we had Medicaid. In the early 1960s when I got out of medical school. I practiced at Santa Rosa Hospital in San Antonio and churches took care of them. We never turned anybody away from the hospitals. And we've given up on this whole concept of...that we might take care of ourselves or assume responsibility for ourselves...our neighbors, our communities, our churches would do it. This whole idea...that's the reason the cost is so high. The cost is so high because we dump it on the government, it becomes a beaurocracy, it becomes special interests, it cow-tows to the insurance companies and the drug companies. Then on top of that you have the inflation. The inflation devalues the dollar. We have lack of competition. There's no competition in medicine. Everybody is protected by licensing. We should actually legalize alternative healthcare; allow people to practice what they want.

    I watched the debate and he couldnt answer the question...and didnt....the question was if a 30 yr old who had a good job didnt have health insurance because he didnt want to pay for it...and he went into a coma who pays for that....and paul did not answer that question directly.

    Hes living in a world 40 yrs ago...where there wasnt that many americans and there wasnt gadzillions of illegal immigrants running over the border to give us the privledge of paying for their child births to the tune of 400,000 a year....and most hospitals are for PROFIT and they get subsidies From guess who GOVT for indigent care....my county in fla we pay 25.00 a yr property tax for the indigent care our local hospital does...so Paul is living in lalaland..
    Theres millions more uninsured now...and anyone that thinks doctors are going to spend most of their time working for free...your living in the same lallaland and Paul is......personal responsibility...blahblahblah...sounds cool...make everyone do it...including the millions of illegals here..
    Last edited by lpast; 09-13-11 at 08:05 PM.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The question asked last night wasn't about people who can't afford insurance, but people who choose not to have insurance. He also addressed the issue of the cost of medical treatment, which is the biggest inhibiting factor to access for people who cannot afford insurance.

    Did that study look into the lifestyle differences of insured v. uninsured? Or did it just do a surface examination with no other evidentiary findings?
    It's likely another "study" with predetermined conclusions, that doesn't examine the other lifestyle factors involved with those that are insured vs. those that aren't.
    These type of studies are very useful in swaying ignorant people.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Nice rant. Completely unrelated to my analogy, though.

    How long to do wait at the DPS? After filling out a form the size of a postcard and gathering your birth certificate and SS card, how long are you made to wait until you get your license? How about the tax office? The DMV? Ever had to deal with the Fish and Wildlife department? What about the IRS? These are all programs and departments devised entirely by the government to regulate and control actions legislated by the government. And they're all bound up in red tape, lines, waiting lists, untrained, unprofessional, incapable staff, and tons upon tons of misinformation.

    So you can blame everybody but the government for government inefficiency....but it's just more party-line nonsense designed to villify the people you like the least. Even if you consider the parties you mentioned above...guess what? The government decided whether or not those parties had any influence. So they're still the ones with their pants down here.

    We can't even bid on a government job without jumping through a ridiculous number of hoops, and all we do is clean carpets. So I'm sorry if I don't fall into lock-step with the "government is our savior" bullhockey spewed as a justification for handing them the reigns and ability to train, regulate, monitor, and select the guy who measures out my anesthesia before surgery.
    Completely on target.

    The problem here is that, no matter how right you are, most people don't know jack about how the medical system in the U.S. operates, the legislation that has been past in previous years that has influenced both the overhead costs and the other costs associated with care.

    It's like talking to a brick wall, you have to overcome a huge amount of misinformation and plain ignorance, in our society to make people understand.
    Which isn't likely to happen.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's likely another "study" with predetermined conclusions, that doesn't examine the other lifestyle factors involved with those that are insured vs. those that aren't.
    These type of studies are very useful in swaying ignorant people.

    Nonesense my wife owned a large salon...all her employees made 40 grand and more 15 yrs ago...and only a couple of them chose to pay for health insurance even when reduced group rates were offered to them through my wife and they all could have afforded it...they didnt think they needed it...they all made good money but if something catastrophic happened only the richest could afford to pay it out of pocket.
    Do you actually believe that anyone is going to follow ron pauls ideas...do you think for a second that they would ever be implemented....your pissing up a rope...hes nuts...not all his ideas are bad and some I agree with ...but the rest are too far out there.
    Stop and think...right now today if doctors and hospitals werent subisidized with our tax money to take care of illegal immigrants health care, there wouldnt be but a couple of hospitals with the doors open out west...they would all be closed and doctors would flee the area in drove...Paul is a weaver...he throws out these great sounding plausible argument that a small segment wants to hear, that will never happen in 2012...pauls been spouting the same things for years and has never taken into acct the changing world.....I have to laugh when the same Ron Paul lovers railed on McCain as being to old and out of touch and the bow before Ron Paul and hes older and waaaaaaaaay more out of touch

  9. #29
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Do you agree with Ron Paul's POV, that the uninsured should be denied life-saving medical care?
    Paul is a medical doctor. I'm sure they still adhere to the Hippocratic oath these days.

    And to deny emergency medical care to the uninsured would involve repealing the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act.

    The real question is, who pays (or rather, who should pay) why, and how.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 09-13-11 at 08:17 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    we should certainly not deny the uninsured access to life-saving treatments. especially in our current environment of unaffordable health care for individuals not eligible for a group policy.

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