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Thread: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    people have treatable diseases that once treated do not diminish quality of life. people get cancer and are cured with no diminished quality of life. good god, he's only 47.
    And right now he's in perfect health. But you don't know my dad. He's convinced Chemo is a waste (and at 5% success rates, who could blame him?). His grandmother and grandfather died from dementia. His father had a host of health issues (and a dining room table quite literally FULL of medications he had to take). His brother fought cancer for 4 years and was pretty much skeletal when he passed.

    If it can't be cured with antibiotics or 1-time surgery my dad isn't going to do it. So why should he be forced to buy insurance he doesn't have any intention of using?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So why should he be forced to buy insurance he doesn't have any intention of using?
    No one should - no one CAN - be forced to buy good or services of any kind as a basic requirement of citizenship.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    And right now he's in perfect health. But you don't know my dad. He's convinced Chemo is a waste (and at 5% success rates, who could blame him?). His grandmother and grandfather died from dementia. His father had a host of health issues (and a dining room table quite literally FULL of medications he had to take). His brother fought cancer for 4 years and was pretty much skeletal when he passed.

    If it can't be cured with antibiotics or 1-time surgery my dad isn't going to do it. So why should he be forced to buy insurance he doesn't have any intention of using?
    so many things could happen, that's why. but oh well.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Because the vast majority of non-insured holdouts change their mind at the moment of truth and get treated. We all pay in the form of higher premiums.

    Sure, there might me a couple ideological holdouts who actually do pick dying of treatable disease instead because they feel passionately about not having insurance. Most won't. So if we are going to insist on sticking to our "private"system, then everyone is going to have to be covered.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    Because the vast majority of non-insured holdouts change their mind at the moment of truth and get treated. We all pay in the form of higher premiums.

    Sure, there might me a couple ideological holdouts who actually do pick dying of treatable disease instead because they feel passionately about not having insurance. Most won't. So if we are going to insist on sticking to our "private"system, then everyone is going to have to be covered.
    I would say, yet again, that mandating insurance for everybody doesn't solve anything. Prices are still high, people will still not be covered, the system will still be abused by idiots who go to the ER because their kid sneezed three times in 24 hours. Instead of avoiding the real issues, we want to allow congress to violate the limits of their authority because.....why, exactly?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I would say, yet again, that mandating insurance for everybody doesn't solve anything. Prices are still high, people will still not be covered, the system will still be abused by idiots who go to the ER because their kid sneezed three times in 24 hours. Instead of avoiding the real issues, we want to allow congress to violate the limits of their authority because.....why, exactly?
    Certainly seems a much better idea to expand Medicare to cover everyone. This is just one more example of an essential service with inelastic demand not being best served by for-profit companies.

    Mandating private insurance is one of the most inefficient ways to address the problem, but people think offering health services equals communism. So if you want to keep your "free market" for every non-communist under age 65, you'll have to buy in.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    Certainly seems a much better idea to expand Medicare to cover everyone. This is just one more example of an essential service with inelastic demand not being best served by for-profit companies.

    Mandating private insurance is one of the most inefficient ways to address the problem, but people think offering health services equals communism. So if you want to keep your "free market" for every non-communist under age 65, you'll have to buy in.
    Single payer doesn't address the problem either. All it does is set artificial pricing levels, which will lead to rationed care and limited access to the more expensive (but often best) diagnostic tools and treatmeant options.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Single payer doesn't address the problem either. All it does is set artificial pricing levels, which will lead to rationed care and limited access to the more expensive (but often best) diagnostic tools and treatmeant options.
    we will certainly need to address cost. there are a lot of potential ways to do this, and in my opinion, this is the discussion we should be having. for example, we need a lot more doctors, and it shouldn't cost a billion dollars to bring a drug to market. both sides are going to have to give; the current pricing system is unsustainable.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Single payer doesn't address the problem either. All it does is set artificial pricing levels, which will lead to rationed care and limited access to the more expensive (but often best) diagnostic tools and treatmeant options.
    I concede your point completely, but I happen to think this is just what we need...and in fact, what is inevitable. My preference would be that the rationing be done on a basis we at least have a voice in.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    When you write policy based on the mental image of your child dying, it's not going to be a cost-effective policy.

    Wanna know why? Because watching children die makes people extremely emotional and not always rational.

    In other words, the left's appeals to pity do not strengthen their arguments, they weaken them.
    Right. Because making money is obviously a higher goal than saving children.
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