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Thread: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

  1. #181
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    and now he's not young. no way could he pay for anything major, so in effect, WE pay for him. he would be one of those people many in this thread are talking about, the irresponsible one who didn't get insurance and now is catastrophically ill. your dad, among others, is why i think we need mandated coverage. are you insured?
    WE haven't paid for anything for him. He's never even taken unemployment benefits. He's never been on food stamps, welfare, medicaid, or any other government program. He's paid in full for every procedure he's had done.

    He is also not the type who would sit for years and years suffering from any disease that would kill him slowly with treatment. He's made it pretty damn clear he won't live that way.

    So don't worry. "We" will likely never pay for my father's "irresponsibility".
    Last edited by tessaesque; 09-15-11 at 03:42 PM.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    He is not irresponsible. WE are irresponsible for insuring de facto those who opt not to be insured.
    Exactly right.
    "We" pay for it because "we" tell health care providers that they have to treat people even when they cannot pay, and that it is OK to spread those costs to other patients. "We" pay for those people because, very literally, "we" choose to.
    When you make the choice to do something, you do not get to whine about the complications that arise from that something.

  3. #183
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    I keep seeing people write "hospitals will treat people regardless of whether or not they have insurance or money." But ultimately if someone has a serious condition, long term treatment is out of the question. They are usually refused more expensive options and are sent home.

    One of the reasons that UHC is typically a cheaper option is because of the level of preventative care. Treatment is cheaper if the condition has not been allowed to fester. By the time those who have no insurance and/or money get treatment, their conditions are either worse or untreatable. Thus, the expense often increases.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    I keep seeing people write "hospitals will treat people regardless of whether or not they have insurance or money." But ultimately if someone has a serious condition, long term treatment is out of the question. They are usually refused more expensive options and are sent home.
    Medical necessity sends all hospital patients home when they clear, regardless of insurance status.

    One of the reasons that UHC is typically a cheaper option is because of the level of preventative care. Treatment is cheaper if the condition has not been allowed to fester.
    Preventive care is a cost saver for a very small minority of conditions. Overall it is absolutely not true. It raises costs. Finding one individual with a budding illness might save costs on him. Screening a thousand for that one rare condition does not save costs overall.

    http://mises.org/daily/3827
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 09-15-11 at 03:52 PM.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    I keep seeing people write "hospitals will treat people regardless of whether or not they have insurance or money." But ultimately if someone has a serious condition, long term treatment is out of the question. They are usually refused more expensive options and are sent home.
    This -should- be the case in all situations.
    Otherwise, you're forcing people to provide goods and services w/o compensation, and/or to pay for goods and services they do not receive.

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    This -should- be the case in all situations.
    Otherwise, you're forcing people to provide goods and services w/o compensation, and/or to pay for goods and services they do not receive.
    So you think basically ambulances should be equipped with a credit card machine?

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So you think basically ambulances should be equipped with a credit card machine?
    Is that a question or a statement? I cannot tell, because it doesnt stem directly from anything I said.
    Maybe you could show a little honesty and ask a question that doesn't suppose someting about my position.

  8. #188
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Medical necessity sends all hospital patients home when they clear, regardless of insurance status.
    When they "clear," that doesn't mean they were properly treated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post

    Preventive care is a cost saver for a very small minority of conditions. Overall it is absolutely not true.
    That defies logic. Especially if preventative care costs are kept reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    This -should- be the case in all situations.
    Otherwise, you're forcing people to provide goods and services w/o compensation, and/or to pay for goods and services they do not receive.
    So back to square one: someone cannot afford treatment: treat them or let them die?
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    So back to square one: someone cannot afford treatment: treat them or let them die?
    You give the provider the choice to treat him at risk of doing so w/o compenation, or to not treat him.
    If they choose to treat someone that cannot pay, then they choose to take whatever loss that may result.

  10. #190
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    Re: Should We Allow The Uninsured To Die?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    You give the provider the choice to treat him at risk of doing so w/o compenation, or to not treat him.
    If they choose to treat someone that cannot pay, then they choose to take whatever loss that may result.
    So ultimately, a person's value equals their monetary value. . .
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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