View Poll Results: Government can't create jobs

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    116 56.86%
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    86 42.16%
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Thread: Government can't create jobs

  1. #281
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    The poor will be working the factories that hopefully will start to form. I could also propose a rebirth of the railroad system in america. It is environmenatlly more friendly than cars, and it would be a huge job creator. We would need workers to rebuild and repair old railroads, maintain, and build new. The rebirth of the railroad system would also help with re-industrialization because of its effective long-range transportation of materials and products.

  2. #282
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    yes. and for every public sector job that we have, there is greater than one private sector job that was either destroyed or choked off. the two points are not disconnected because you have to account for where you are getting the money from.
    Even if that were true, so what??
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  3. #283
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it's the cover of the Marine Corps Times. the same cover was on the Army and Navy times, though I didn't see the Air Force one. Came out last month

    there is even a thread about it down in the military forum


    but you seem to have forgotten to respond to the part where you claimed it was an extremist nutjob rightwing idea that only Ron Paul could love?
    Yeah, I see there that no one has been able to do with the 401K plan what the current system does, guarantee a pension at retirement. BTW, which candidates are proposing the 401K plan to replace the military pensions?
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  4. #284
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    One would have to be an idiot to deny the claim. However, I think the real debate is not whether the Government can create jobs like more TSA clowns, FBI special agents, poultry inspectors, district judges, DOJ prosecutors or Navy SEALS but rather can government activity create more PRIVATE sector jobs through tax hikes, tax cuts, tariffs, less or more regulations etc
    The government can (and very often does) create jobs through contracts with the private sector (ie: the MIC, the DOT, etc., etc.). However, the government can only provide incentives and impetus for job growth through such measures as tax hikes, cuts, tariffs and the like. How the private sector will react to such incentives cannot always be accurately determined.

  5. #285
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Even if that were true, so what??
    well, it means that the more you expand the public sector, the fewer actual jobs you will have - which means that fewer and fewer private sector workers will be supporting more and more public sector workers until the whole thing collapses. Generally, historians are unanimous in their their judgement that such an occurence is "bad".

  6. #286
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yeah, I see there that no one has been able to do with the 401K plan what the current system does, guarantee a pension at retirement.
    oh, you are guaranteed your 401(k), it's yours after all, you own it. You simply aren't guaranteed a set amount.

    Mind you, it's still not a shabby deal. I ran the numbers (i love excel), and if you follow a generally standard enlisted 20-year career, maximizing the match the entire way, and average a 6% return above inflation (which is pretty standard - it's what the more conservative pension funds assume), when you get to age 65 you still retire with $2,234,953.86.


    BTW, which candidates are proposing the 401K plan to replace the military pensions?
    well, the main force pushing for it currently is inside the Obama administration, though John McCain has signaled his support as well. There will probably be a push to offer a "grandfather" option, though I hope if that is the case they offer an opt-out.

    It really frankly makes sense in the context of force shrinkages. In the next few years, the Obama administration wants to significantly reduce the number of personnel in our military - Marines will be losing at least 20K, and probably more. However, once you are past your first enlistment, when you are denied re-up for reasons outside of your control, you get a severence package that is (2x monthly base pay) x number of years served. So, for example, if we have to cut an E-7 with 16 years in, it will cost the government a one-time payment of $128,800. Expand this across a 10% reduction in the force, and you're quickly talking real money. However, that E-7 at 16 years is probably staying in in order to hit his 20 year mark. Under the new changes, his "pensions earnings" would stop where he currently is at (16 years), which means he no longer has an incentive to stay in the military instead of seeking higher paying employment in the private sector. And so, instead of re-upping, that is what he will do. You can cause the force to cut itself in a way that minimizes the cost of severance packages.
    Last edited by cpwill; 10-17-11 at 05:06 AM.

  7. #287
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    oh, you are guaranteed your 401(k), it's yours after all, you own it. You simply aren't guaranteed a set amount.
    Which means you are not guaranteed a pension at retirement, exactly what I said.
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  8. #288
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Which means you are not guaranteed a pension at retirement, exactly what I said.
    You can roll your 401k funds into an annuity, which is pretty much the same thing as a pension.
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  9. #289
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You can roll your 401k funds into an annuity, which is pretty much the same thing as a pension.
    bingo. an annutiy of 5% off of 2 million is 100K per year - on top of whatever you managed to save during the other 27 years of working.

  10. #290
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    WHICH, it should be noted, is much higher than your pension would have been.

    you just had to wait until 65 to get it. as opposed to rating a pension at age 38.

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