View Poll Results: Government can't create jobs

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    116 56.86%
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    86 42.16%
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Thread: Government can't create jobs

  1. #271
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    I can agree, a full out embargo would be devastating. However, a tariff, so that Americans have a reason to make our own, would be plenty enough. And if it doesn't bring jobs, it will at least it will generate revenue that our government refuses to generate from the people that AREN'T making jobs but sitting on millions of dollars.

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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well, as a quick way of compressing the point, in relatively open economies that are marked by high levels of debt (such as ours), the multiplier effect is actually NEGATIVE. So, in order to "create" jobs, the government first destroys or chokes off a greater number of jobs - which means that net there are fewer rather than more jobs. This has been one of history's most consistent economic experiences. If you were to study every major attempt to stimulate an economy in an OECD country since 1970, you would find that those that succeed are the ones that cut taxes, whereas those that fail are the ones that increase transfer payments. Every. Single. Time.


    Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.
    That's debt. Not public sector jobs. Those are two different things.
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  3. #273
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndepent View Post
    I can agree, a full out embargo would be devastating. However, a tariff, so that Americans have a reason to make our own, would be plenty enough. And if it doesn't bring jobs, it will at least it will generate revenue that our government refuses to generate from the people that AREN'T making jobs but sitting on millions of dollars.
    I am not entirely opposed to the idea, but how would a tariff on imports reduce the practice of companies out-sourcing jobs and investments for foreign markets?
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  4. #274
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I am not entirely opposed to the idea, but how would a tariff on imports reduce the practice of companies out-sourcing jobs and investments for foreign markets?
    It increases the cost of foreign made product. Thus reducing the benefit to a company of building elsewhere.

  5. #275
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    That's debt. Not public sector jobs. Those are two different things.


    yes. and for every public sector job that we have, there is greater than one private sector job that was either destroyed or choked off. the two points are not disconnected because you have to account for where you are getting the money from.

  6. #276
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    It increases the cost of foreign made product. Thus reducing the benefit to a company of building elsewhere.
    along with reducing the ability of the poor to provide for themselves; reducing everyones' disposable income, which means reducing our wealth, which means reducing our demand, which means reducing our production, which means reducing jobs.

    but go on ahead. that sounds like a great idea.

  7. #277
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nice colors in your unlinked graphics!
    it's the cover of the Marine Corps Times. the same cover was on the Army and Navy times, though I didn't see the Air Force one. Came out last month

    there is even a thread about it down in the military forum


    but you seem to have forgotten to respond to the part where you claimed it was an extremist nutjob rightwing idea that only Ron Paul could love?
    Last edited by cpwill; 10-16-11 at 11:22 AM.

  8. #278
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Actually I'm pretty sure that million figure is accounting for future liabilities stemming from that service year.
    Hm. everything that i've seen indicates that is year-of expenses; but I'll admit I just took the figure and moved on. As I recall, that figure was under major discussion last when Obama was going through his Hamlet act on whether or not to send in the Surge to Afghanistan.

    This is basically what Cheney argued as to why PMCs would save the government money. But it's not just death, the costs of rehab are not borne by the government for a PMC who gets injured. It's crass, but it's still true.
    yup. if you are a contractor and you get f'd up; it's on you and whatever long-term-care insurance policy you had bought for yourself.

    Gates basically said that benefits are eating the Pentagon alive.
    and he was right - they are our largest single expense.


    I'll get back to the other post probably tomorrow - but It's 11:30 here and when we tangle I need my a-game.

  9. #279
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    along with reducing the ability of the poor to provide for themselves; reducing everyones' disposable income, which means reducing our wealth, which means reducing our demand, which means reducing our production, which means reducing jobs.

    but go on ahead. that sounds like a great idea.
    The part that you are missing is that

    The poor would have a higher number of jobs in the US to choose from, leading to increased wages for them and the abiltity to pay for higher priced goods. The profits for the companies would be reduced and the middle class would not see as miuch of a benifit if any. Or at least what I have stated is a possibility

    Now as for wealth in the US, it is currently decreasing, the trade and current account deficit is indicative of that. Production in the US is decreasing, fewer jobs in the US because of the lost production, and less consumption.

    Trade is great and it is not a zero sum game, but a significant trade deficit is not healthy in the long run, and the US has had a signficant trade deficit for a long time.
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  10. #280
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Hm. everything that i've seen indicates that is year-of expenses; but I'll admit I just took the figure and moved on. As I recall, that figure was under major discussion last when Obama was going through his Hamlet act on whether or not to send in the Surge to Afghanistan.
    It is to my knowledge as well the costs of year of expenses. The average cost of supplying the soldiers, maintaining the equipment, housing, and general operations of course not to mention wages and benifits. As for the PMCs how do they get into the region, where do they get their supplies and how are they housed? Do they cover all of that themselves or do they piggyback on the US military? If they piggyback their costs are drastically higher then just the cost per contractor

    yup. if you are a contractor and you get f'd up; it's on you and whatever long-term-care insurance policy you had bought for yourself.
    The only benifit for the US miltiary, but given the base cost per US soldier and a contractor in wages and benifits I doubt it is as big an issue as being made. Especially considering the low casualty rate in Afghanistan


    and he was right - they are our largest single expense.


    I'll get back to the other post probably tomorrow - but It's 11:30 here and when we tangle I need my a-game.
    Those darn golden government supplied pension and benifits plans. I think the Gov of Wisconsin needs to be parachuted into DC and make some drastic cuts
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 10-16-11 at 12:49 PM.
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