View Poll Results: Government can't create jobs

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  • Don't Know

    2 0.98%
  • Agree, it cannot

    116 56.86%
  • Disagree, it can

    86 42.16%
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Thread: Government can't create jobs

  1. #161
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's correct. that process, of course, is known as the amendment process. if you can point me to the Amendment establishing all these things, I would be most fascinated to hear about it, as my Constitution is evidently out of date.
    Look to the purpose and guiding principals of the Constitution as stated in the Preamble:

    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense. promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #162
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    sadly, that is not correct. there is literally not enough money in the world to make our entitlement system solvent.
    We were discussing SS, and it is easily "fixed" for the long term by the methods I outlined above. The only way to "fix" our health care system, public and private, is to switch to UHC as the rest of the industrialized world has done.

    I fail to see however what this has to do with the topic of this thread. Do you have some point related to the OP that you would like to discuss?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #163
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Look to the purpose and guiding principals of the Constitution as stated in the Preamble:

    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense. promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
    Liberals should not discuss constitutionality. It is a foreign subject to them.

    Mr. Justice Harlan delivered the opinion of the court:

    We pass without extended discussion the suggestion that the particular section of the statute of Massachusetts now in question ( 137, chap. 75) is in derogation of rights secured by the preamble of the Constitution of the United States. Although that preamble indicates the general purposes for which the people ordained and established the Constitution, it has never been regarded as the source of any substantive power conferred on the government of the United States, or on any of its departments. Such powers embrace only those expressly granted in the body of the Constitution, and such as may be implied from those so granted. Although, therefore, one of the declared objects of the Constitution was to secure the blessings of liberty to all under the sovereign jurisdiction and authority of the United States, no power can be exerted to that end by the United States, unless, apart from the preamble, it be found in some express delegation of power, or in some power to be properly implied therefrom. 1 Story, Const. 462.


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  4. #164
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Liberals should not discuss constitutionality. It is a foreign subject to them.
    So your say, yet the Supreme Court, the body authorized under the Constitution in its interpretation has held for decades that SS and Medicare are Constitutional, just as I have.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #165
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So your say, yet the Supreme Court, the body authorized under the Constitution in its interpretation has held for decades that SS and Medicare are Constitutional, just as I have.
    I have never said they were perfect and they are not.

  6. #166
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Ultra-conservative Ron Paul explains the distinction very well here between defense spending and unnecessary spending on the military-industrial complex
    Ron Paul also either does not understand or chooses to ignore the fact that our economy depends upon global trade, which depends upon global stability, which depends upon a forward-deployed US Military. That is the main reason he won't get my vote - because either of those disqualifies him (imo) from the Presidency.

    however, color me surprised that you of all people would advocate slashing public employee pensions.
    Last edited by cpwill; 09-29-11 at 06:37 PM.

  7. #167
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We were discussing SS, and it is easily "fixed" for the long term by the methods I outlined above
    it is not, as even the AARP now admits. expenditures will be reduced - the question is, whether or not we get to control how they are reduced, or whether or not we are able to protect current seniors from the reductions.

    The only way to "fix" our health care system, public and private, is to switch to UHC as the rest of the industrialized world has done.
    in order to watch quality and accessibility sink while costs explode? no thanks. the way to fix our healthcare market is to allow it to function as one.

    I fail to see however what this has to do with the topic of this thread. Do you have some point related to the OP that you would like to discuss?
    as i recall, you brought it up.

  8. #168
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    He's counting the number of registered users that voted and comparing that to the number of votes.

    For example, 42 people in total have voted for "yes it can". Additionally, 42 of those 42 people are all registered members whose names we can see.

    On the flip side 70 people have voted for "no it can't". However, only 12 of those 70 are actually registered members and one of them has stated they voted that way incorrectly (Ockham).

    So the only 58 votes in favor of "no it can't" come from unregistered people.

    We have a tendancy on threads that are near and dear to extreme hyper partisans to see the answer that dramatically fails when looking at the general membership somehow have an overwhelming majority of the "non-registered voters". This tends to be because an actual registered voter, mad that this pet hyper partisan issue is getting thoroughly trounced, decides to vote unregistered a ton of times so they can try and claim some kind of victory. Global Warming and Gay Marriage threads see this often.

    At times, unregistered votes are reasonably accurate. However, when registered members are going essentially 43 to 11 in favor one way and unregistered membesr are going 58 to 0 another its a pretty good guess that someone is screwing with the poll. Especially when that 43 is made up of a significant mix of people on both sides of the political aisle.
    Seems to me liberal minded folks would full on embrace that strategy. Why should anyone have to bother to actually show who they actually are to cast a ballot after all?

    The reasons you described are the reasons I dont bother voting in polls.

  9. #169
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Look to the purpose and guiding principals of the Constitution as stated in the Preamble:

    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense. promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
    thank you yes precisely?

    "With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison


    or, if you like, we can discuss the Federalist Papers, where they made themselves even more plain about the very limited power of the federal government?

  10. #170
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    Re: Government can't create jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ron Paul also either does not understand or chooses to ignore the fact that our economy depends upon global trade, which depends upon global stability, which depends upon a forward-deployed US Military. That is the main reason he won't get my vote - because either of those disqualifies him (imo) from the Presidency.

    however, color me surprised that you of all people would advocate slashing public employee pensions.
    You assume too much.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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